do we prefer the scudetto over the champions league? (2 Viewers)

[HelterSkelter]

i was talking to some of my friends who support milan,and even though i hate to admit it,they nailed when we started talking about the champions league.they pointed out,and maybe quite rightly so,that juventus have never been the same force in europe that they have been in the league minus those 3 consecutive CL finals under Lippi.only 2 champions leauge titles dont do justice to this club,and that by a fair distance.Why dont we possess the CL pedigree that teams like Real Madrid,Liverpool,Milna,Bayern Munich or even Barcelona possess?and im not talking about the last two seasons over here,im talking about our all time CL history.we have never been able to be a potent force in europe.Even the two CL wins we have were not entirely convincing in a manner as one was decided on penalties,whereas the other one was easily the most notorious CL final ever.yes,it can be argued that had we won more of those 3 finals we lost under Lippi,our CL record would have looked a lot more nicer,but at the end of the day,we only have 2 CL trophies against our names.For a team that comes into the CL every year as one of the favourites,and a team that is regarded as a major european force,2 CL titles is a shabby record.

why is it this so?why is our CL record so poor compared to that of other european giants?the only reason that i could come up with us that our whole gameplan,our transfer moves,our bosses etc,everyone puts the scudetto ahead of the CL.our energies seem to be reserved for the scudetto first and the CL later.maybe we want to wrap up the scudetto first,with the CL considered a bonus.is it the fault of the management?or have we not had the players who can make a difference in europe?

discuss.

 

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[ZhiXin]

The reason is quite simple actually, we lack a playmaker

 

[AbuGadanzieri]

i say in the last 10 years we played 4 finals 96 97 98 2003

 

[baggio]

The answer is quite obvious. It's fast becoming a belief that silverware (whatever it may be) is required each season. And since our chances are better in the scudetto race coupled with the fact that it suits our system more than the Champions league - we've become averse to taking risks. Both with our system and beliefs.

 

[swag]

This is an ancient topic on these forums that comes up almost monthly. I'd post on it, but I am burned out with fatigue on this subject -- but hopefully others have something new to contribute.

For now I'll just move it out of the "Player Talk" section and into "Team Talk".

 

[Ian]

Of course not. We don't prefer either. You can't win the CL every year, or even every year that you have a team that's capable. Be patient and it will happen.

 

[Philipp00]

I thin winning the cl is more difficult. 6 or 7 teams are on nearly the same level. one bad day is enough to get kicked out. in the serie a there are just 3 or 4 teams playing for the scudetto. there are more than 30 rounds. it does not matter if you have a bad day. Nevertheless I prefer having won much more scudettos than milan to milans three more cl titles.

 

[rokkstar]

Winning the CL takes a combination of form, consistency and luck at the right time. Timing is everything. And to win both would take a perfect balancing act for both competitions.

Take arsenal, they suck in the league whereas excel in CL.

Barca are on another level for me they are the best team in europe at the moment spearheading on both fronts.

Juve, Juve did brilliantly looking back at the first half of the season, but just sputtered in the closing stages at CL and league.

But I agree, we are more 'moulded' to be successful in league rather than knockouts.

 

[Muha]

I honestly don't think that we can win the CL with our current formation .... We've got great players... but thats not enough.. our tactics need to change

 

[HelterSkelter]

i dont think its about having a playmaker.its about the general mindset of the entire club.for a club that has had playmakers of the quality of platini and zidane,only 2 champions league victories do not do justice to the size of this club.

 

[HelterSkelter]

and im not talking about the recent history.im talking about our complete european history.i dont think there has ever been a time in our history where we were considered as the team to beat in europe.milan have had that time,madrid have had it,liverpool have had it,bayern munich have had it,but we havent.and im not ignoring the 3 finals we played under lippi over here.

 

[Adrian]

the CL was a lot easier to win in previous years. The past few seaosns has seen so many more games involved and it makes it hard to win more than one trophy if a team is to win the CL.

which do i prefer??? well if we won 28 CLs and only 2 scudetti, i would say the scudetto is more important. since that isnt the case id say the CL is a must....i think the team has missed its boat though...many key players are nearing the end of their career and capello may have wasted our chances these past two seasons.

 

[Mr. Gol]

i say in the last 10 years we played 4 finals 96 97 98 2003

Indeed. Juve are mostly no so good in the important matches, that is why we often lose in knock-out competitions, while we are good in Serie A because the table is calculated over 38 matches, each of them with the same importance.

 

[flieeeekke]

The reason is quite simple actually, we lack a playmaker

if only it was that simple.

 

[swag]

But let's also not kid ourselves. Milan's track record in the CL is clearly enviable compared to ours in recent years (particularly for a squad with only one Scudetto to its credit in that time) -- even if they only won one CL during that period, and even that was the result of a PK "coin toss". (And here they experienced some inexplicable chokes in this time themselves.)

Chelsea, anyone? Manchester United, anyone? Real Madrid, anyone? (OK, since 2002. ) Besides Porto's victory in 2004, which some will argue was something of a fluke (for the record: I disagree), we're not seeing a lot of expected silverware being won by the rest of the G14 these days either.

 

[tassard]

Indeed. Juve are mostly no so good in the important matches, that is why we often lose in knock-out competitions, while we are good in Serie A because the table is calculated over 38 matches, each of them with the same importance.

we are not in the important matches under Capello.Under Lippi we were good except for the finals where we were unlucky IMO

 

[Morra10]

i think if champions league was at the start of the season we would win it.......lets face it we dont have a young team and that is why we are struggling now, younger guys have more fight and stamina towards the end of the season.

example Arsenal....

 

[HelterSkelter]

chelsea hardly qualify as european giants in terms of history,or even english giants for that matter.sure,they are one of the games oldest clubs,but i dont think they are what you call a 'football giant' in terms of history.

 

[flieeeekke]

chelsea hardly qualify as european giants in terms of history,or even english giants for that matter.sure,they are one of the games oldest clubs,but i dont think they are what you call a 'football giant' in terms of history.

they are making history right now.

 

[- vOnAm -]

We actually prefer the Chamions League, but our style of play and tactics differ.

The Champions League is about playing your abosolute best during the 180 mins of a two-leg battle.
Leagues are a calculated effort which in most part involves FITNESS or Resource strategy, playing consistantly over a 9-10 month period.

Compared to motor racing:
1. The Champions League is a Sprint Race.
High risk taking, tremendously aggresive, technically brilliant topped off with short term tactics

2. The Serie A Tittle is a Circuit Race.
Long term tactics, managed risk taking, managed resouces(tires,fuel) and the patience to execute formulated tactics

Now in an all out sprint race I think Raikonen can beat Schummy, but we all know how well Schummy can look after his tires, and beat Raikonen after 60laps.

Milan have been somewhat a balanced team and thats why they don't Dominate in Serie A, but are always strong contenders in both competitions.

Juventus are all out Circuit racers; we Dominate those races often enough but our system fails in the Sprints.
Because we simply don't play the football style that is required in the Champions League, we lack that fire.

So why do English teams seem to get it right the last two years?

Becuase the EPL is identical to a Series of Sprint races rather than a tactical Circuit race. Week-In and Week-Out it is all out football from all teams in the league; implementing aggresive tactics and taking high risks, hence "Kick and Rush" football.
I don't see many of the EPL teams formulating or implementing long term tactics to secure league positions like you would find in the Serie A. And only a small portion of those who, like Chelsea, apply these tactics patiently. Which EPL team can control the match pace? Most just play as fast as they can.
It is this aggresive mindset that have enabled English teams to be mentally more suited to progressing in the Chamions League. And the lack of success in the domestic league during their CL campaign is just a sign of inability to keep the gas tank full.

Thats crazy!! If that were the case than why does Italy often have more representatives than England in the latter stages?

My answer would be that Sprint races, as I have mentioned, DO require technical capabilities and certainly Italian teams are known for their technical abilities. Some who make it to the semi's are just able to implement that 'short game' tactic and become more aggresive while others (like Juve) can't.

What we, Juventus, need is a more fiery coach or style of play which is able to release the aggresiveness of our players. To be bold and brave enough to challange our opponents by playing a more open brand of football. One which gives more space for them to score yet also allows us to send a mental message of supiriority by the sheer class and fluidity of our movements. Even if this style won't be played every week of the season, we still need a coach who knows how to play 'em.

We have got the players to play a more open game and WIN, so why aren't we doin' just that?
Instead of applying tactics that sends messages to other clubs about how insecure we are about our football by applying a more closed game. Scared isn't an attitude of Champions. Scared tactics will never win us the Champions League. Don't get me wrong, I like how Juve can win without giving much effort and how we can control the pace of many matches, but we can and should be able to play more openly oo more occasions. I'm not saying we should be a Gung-Ho team, but we need to have Gung-Ho capabilities, so that when the time comes to risk it all, we can really go for broke.