Board & Management (53 Viewers)

[Badass J Elkann]

@s4tch sorry for asking you, but you seem to be up on this shit: any news on our situation and possible penalties? No serie B for us ?

Thing is at this stage it's just an investigation, we don't actually know what the official charges are yet

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At one point.. it looks like CONSOB/Investigators are trying to live up to the media circus..


And how on earth the investigation is known to the public while it is ongoing? Or maybe it is just media bullshit inventing stuff...

There's no jury system in Italy so this sort of shit gets published in the media to create a lynch mob

 

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[s4tch]

@s4tch sorry for asking you, but you seem to be up on this shit: any news on our situation and possible penalties? No serie B for us ?

what @JUVEMOOD said

also, there will be a court hearing on 21st december, prosecutors already requested the collection of ~400k euro tax debt, club appealed

there's also some news about the uefa proceedings, an uefa consultant is quoted saying that the numbers regarding plusvalenza, salary maneuvers and non accounted costs wouldn't warrant the exclusion from uefa competitions

the civil court is allegedly prepared to discuss the case in the summer so it will be long and we'll read speculations on a daily basis for a few months. media is milking the hell out of this situation, we can't always take anything seriously.

one example of the many controversies: the loca deal is under investigation because you have too many installments and obligation is too easy to achieve, meanwhile nobody cares about the raspadori deal which is to be paid in 6 (six) years lol

more to come lol

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Thing is at this stage it's just an investigation, we don't actually know what the official charges are yet

the charges of the prosecutors has been known already for a while
https://www.calcioefinanza.it/2022/11/29/juventus-accusa-procura-plusvalenze-stipendi/

there's no trial yet. sports trial is expected around q1 next year, ~summer for the civil court

 

[juve123]

Cristiano Ronaldo, through his own lawyer, appears to have filed a request for access to the documents pursuant to article 116 of the Code of Criminal Procedure, in which he claims his status as a creditor of the Company, thereby corroborating the elements of the investigation.”
(Antonio Corsa)

 

[radekas]

So we're dead after all? Polish press already with the sensationalists titles like "Juve in danger of relegation". Flashbacks from 2006 intensify.

 

[s4tch]

So we're dead after all? Polish press already with the sensationalists titles like "Juve in danger of relegation". Flashbacks from 2006 intensify.

they are echoing napoli's lawyer's words

the theoretical danger is there, the club also included it in the revised financial report apparently, but it's still a very distant possibility

 

[Van Helsing]

Lotito defends us lol

which means he is guilty too

 

[Orgut]

which means he is guilty too

Ofcourse he is. The whole league did it...
The problem is the over-doing it.
Paratici and Agnelli obviously over-did it.
If all these proofs are indeed legit and it sounds like they are, we are going to receive a serious action but I hope it will only be a sum to be paid and not points deduction or a CL ban.
Also there will be troubles with our image but its still better than a demotion or a CL ban.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Thing is at this stage it's just an investigation, we don't actually know what the official charges are yet

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There's no jury system in Italy so this sort of shit gets published in the media to create a lynch mob

As it should be. Uneducated plebs have no business giving verdicts on life changing matters.

 

[Vlad]

which means he is guilty too

Selling a player for whatever sum parties agree on, if it is above fair or book value, is no crime. Having partners/ clubs with whome you are doing business more frequently isnt a crime either.

 

[DeviAngel]

A statement from the club’s Supervisory Board confirms Ronaldo requested documents related to the investigation from the Turin Prosecutor through his lawyers. According to reports in Italy, the Prosecutor denied the request.

The Supervisory Board highlights that CR7 ‘claims himself as a creditor of the Club, thereby confirming the elements of the investigation.’

The former Bianconeri striker hasn’t made any request to the club ‘believing that the circumstance has no accounting significance,’ claims the Supervisory Board.

This could mean that Ronaldo hasn’t formally requested the money from the club but wants to understand his position, as proved by the request made to the Turin Prosecutor.

Last week, Juventus released a revised consolidated financial statement, but the potential debt towards Ronaldo does not appear in the document, prompting the Supervisory Board to ‘transfer to the Club the information referred above, inviting appropriate reflection in light of the relevance of the stakes, amounting to approximately €20m.’

In the official statement released today, Tuesday, December 6, the Supervisory Board confirms that it does not share the conclusions from the former board of directors in the latest financial statement released by the club, given that they ‘prioritise the form of the agreements over the substance.’

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Creditor? So like he was borrowing the club money? Seems like they found a hole how to not report them

 

[JUVEMOOD]

A statement from the club’s Supervisory Board confirms Ronaldo requested documents related to the investigation from the Turin Prosecutor through his lawyers. According to reports in Italy, the Prosecutor denied the request.

The Supervisory Board highlights that CR7 ‘claims himself as a creditor of the Club, thereby confirming the elements of the investigation.’

The former Bianconeri striker hasn’t made any request to the club ‘believing that the circumstance has no accounting significance,’ claims the Supervisory Board.

This could mean that Ronaldo hasn’t formally requested the money from the club but wants to understand his position, as proved by the request made to the Turin Prosecutor.

Last week, Juventus released a revised consolidated financial statement, but the potential debt towards Ronaldo does not appear in the document, prompting the Supervisory Board to ‘transfer to the Club the information referred above, inviting appropriate reflection in light of the relevance of the stakes, amounting to approximately €20m.’

In the official statement released today, Tuesday, December 6, the Supervisory Board confirms that it does not share the conclusions from the former board of directors in the latest financial statement released by the club, given that they ‘prioritise the form of the agreements over the substance.’

===

Creditor? So like he was borrowing the club money? Seems like they found a hole how to not report them

I dont get the motive behind this move from the club.
FIFA, UEFA, FIGC everyone in the world said 2020/2021 is forgiven.. FFP won't apply etc. If you recorded 219mil loss or 280mil loss.
Impact on stock price? We Already declared record losses.... 220 or 280.. what difference it will make?

This level of incompetence is baffling.


No sporting advantage for sure.. we could be running into more debt but still no sporting advantage there.

 

[Strickland]

In most countries its the lawyers that pull publicity stunts as a last resort tactic to salvage a trial. In Italy apparently its the prosecutors who leak everything to the press lol.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

which means he is guilty too

He knows that Nigerian kid is really not 18

 

[Mike-e-y]

A statement from the club’s Supervisory Board confirms Ronaldo requested documents related to the investigation from the Turin Prosecutor through his lawyers. According to reports in Italy, the Prosecutor denied the request.

The Supervisory Board highlights that CR7 ‘claims himself as a creditor of the Club, thereby confirming the elements of the investigation.’

The former Bianconeri striker hasn’t made any request to the club ‘believing that the circumstance has no accounting significance,’ claims the Supervisory Board.

This could mean that Ronaldo hasn’t formally requested the money from the club but wants to understand his position, as proved by the request made to the Turin Prosecutor.

Last week, Juventus released a revised consolidated financial statement, but the potential debt towards Ronaldo does not appear in the document, prompting the Supervisory Board to ‘transfer to the Club the information referred above, inviting appropriate reflection in light of the relevance of the stakes, amounting to approximately €20m.’

In the official statement released today, Tuesday, December 6, the Supervisory Board confirms that it does not share the conclusions from the former board of directors in the latest financial statement released by the club, given that they ‘prioritise the form of the agreements over the substance.’

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Creditor? So like he was borrowing the club money? Seems like they found a hole how to not report them

This confuses me, if we’ve paid people these agreements under the table then how can we owe him 19m?

If we do owe him 19m then what exactly have we done that’s illegal? It’s not illegal to owe someone money… is the issue here that we haven’t reported the ‘salary manoeuvres’ as debt?

beyond confused at all of this

 

[DeviAngel]

This confuses me, if we’ve paid people these agreements under the table then how can we owe him 19m?

If we do owe him 19m then what exactly have we done that’s illegal? It’s not illegal to owe someone money… is the issue here that we haven’t reported the ‘salary manoeuvres’ as debt?

beyond confused at all of this

Nobody knows shit but from the rumors so far and from the backing of whope Serie A, we've done nothing that others don't do. So far this doesn't seem so serious. For AA on the other side...gl to him and Paratici

 

[juve123]

On December 21, there will be an Appeal hearing on the request by the Public Prosecutors for the preventive seizure of €437,000 from Juventus for the crime of fraudulent tax declaration. [@sportface2016)

 

[CrimsonianKing]

Corriere dello Sport : John Elkann is considering selling Juventus in the second half of 2023

Any better sources out there?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

A statement from the club’s Supervisory Board confirms Ronaldo requested documents related to the investigation from the Turin Prosecutor through his lawyers. According to reports in Italy, the Prosecutor denied the request.

The Supervisory Board highlights that CR7 ‘claims himself as a creditor of the Club, thereby confirming the elements of the investigation.’

The former Bianconeri striker hasn’t made any request to the club ‘believing that the circumstance has no accounting significance,’ claims the Supervisory Board.

This could mean that Ronaldo hasn’t formally requested the money from the club but wants to understand his position, as proved by the request made to the Turin Prosecutor.

Last week, Juventus released a revised consolidated financial statement, but the potential debt towards Ronaldo does not appear in the document, prompting the Supervisory Board to ‘transfer to the Club the information referred above, inviting appropriate reflection in light of the relevance of the stakes, amounting to approximately €20m.’

In the official statement released today, Tuesday, December 6, the Supervisory Board confirms that it does not share the conclusions from the former board of directors in the latest financial statement released by the club, given that they ‘prioritise the form of the agreements over the substance.’

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Creditor? So like he was borrowing the club money? Seems like they found a hole how to not report them

No, Ronaldo is the creditor. Meaning he either gave them funds directly, or received a reduced rate of pay in lieu of a reimbursement or some other general asset.

If you have a credit card from X Bank, they pay your bills, you then pay the bank back the amount of the funds plus a percentage.

In this situation, Ronaldo is the bank and Juve are the credit card.

"Meaning it has no accounting significance" can be kind of.....meh.... one of two things. Either Juve tried to outright defraud him and later said "oh shit, we forgot, our bad!" OR the sum is so insignificant to Ronaldo that it would cost him more in time and effort to retrieve the funds than the total value of the outstanding amount.

Plus, it's easier for an individual to write it off as "bad debt" on taxes than go back and amend the taxes three years later. However, he could show the asset in the current tax year, but would have to explain why it "disappeared" on his income statement/balance sheet from the years prior.

I'm an accountant.

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This confuses me, if we’ve paid people these agreements under the table then how can we owe him 19m?

If we do owe him 19m then what exactly have we done that’s illegal? It’s not illegal to owe someone money… is the issue here that we haven’t reported the ‘salary manoeuvres’ as debt?

beyond confused at all of this

Owing someone money isn't a crime.

It is, however, a crime to owe someone money (a liability) and not report or record it on your balance sheet. It's like if a bank was trying to figure out your risk for borrowing money to buy a house, but you didn't disclose you had six car loans from other banks.

It makes your club look both mad shady and reduces total liability (total debt) making it easier for them to borrow money, make sponsorship deals, etc.

At the end of the day, they hid debts to try and look more profitable. If your company is a publicly traded company, that's called "deceiving the investors or shareholders," it's fraud, and it's a serious deal.

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So we're dead after all? Polish press already with the sensationalists titles like "Juve in danger of relegation". Flashbacks from 2006 intensify.

I love your club so much.

Your precious Bremer to Padova.

 

[DeviAngel]

However, they also add: “it can’t be ruled out that, in the future, these parameters (or new requirements that may be proposed and approved) may not be fully respected.

“If the Company is unable to comply with the above requirements, it may be subject to management restrictions, administrative sanctions or, in the most severe cases, not being able to participate in national and/or European competitions with significant negative impacts on their reputation, as well as on the economic and financial situation of the group.”

It must be highlighted that Juventus have repeated this in all their financial statements over the last few years as the message is aimed at current or future shareholders who must have a clear vision of the possible future scenarios. It is not strictly related to the ongoing investigation.

 

[juve123]

“Except the effects of what is described in the paragraph’ Operations on the remuneration of members of staff for the 2019-20 and 2020-2021 sports seasons’ and the elements underlying the findings of this report and the possible effects of the ‘Relations with other football clubs’ section, the consolidated financial statements provide a true and fair representation of the financial position,” said Deloitte on Monday.