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  1. #681
    M.M. <span style='color: #000000'><span class='glow_ff0000'>Kyle</span></span>'s Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenz View Post
    Because a world class midfield three can dominate a midfield two. And it's pointless having extra attackers if they have to track back to retrieve the ball because the midfield duo and the defenders are being pressed out of the game. The attackers need to be running into space to receive passes. We were bad with a midfield 3 last season because we didn't have the right equipment. Now it's much more arguable that we do.


    - - - Updated - - -



    All wingers? We have two genuine wingers in Costa and Cuadrado; three genuine strikers in Higuain, Mandzukic and Dybala; and three attacking midfielders - Bernardeschi, Pjanic and Dybala. And besides, in 2015 we had Vidal playing very well in the hole. The 4-3-1-2 in 2015 was very successful even though we had much worse fullbacks, even more successful that last years 4-2-3-1 you might say given how dismal we were in the CL final last year compared to 2015.

    P.s Matuidi isn't Pirlo but he's not Sturaro either. He can hold his own with the ball.
    In what way do we now have the personnel for a 3 man midfield this season? Because we added matuidi? He may have the energy but not even he is ideal for this because the dude blows ass when he actually has to use the ball and contribute to build up or attack which in 4-3-1-2 he would have to do a lot of. The guy is sissoko level useless with the ball.

    Even if matuidi was suited to this, which he isnt, that would be one CM when such style requires 2 starters capable of the box to box style plus cover for them
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    Juventuz addict Linebreak's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    In what way do we now have the personnel for a 3 man midfield this season? Because we added matuidi? He may have the energy but not even he is ideal for this because the dude blows ass when he actually has to use the ball and contribute to build up or attack which in 4-3-1-2 he would have to do a lot of. The guy is sissoko level useless with the ball.

    Even if matuidi was suited to this, which he isnt, that would be one CM when such style requires 2 starters capable of the box to box style plus cover for them



    PS: Why the HELL does this site double post every single one of my posts lately?

  3. #683
    Scouted DYBALA10's Avatar

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    Rodrigo is expected to start in the last Uruguay game vs Bolivia.

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    South American Champion Scottish's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DYBALA10 View Post
    Rodrigo is expected to start in the last Uruguay game vs Bolivia.
    He did a fine job tonight. Saw him live with all the lads - Edi, Martín and our best freebie next year Giménez.
    Currently rolling with: Fr3sh, DAiDEVIL, Simone Padoin

    Fino Alla Fine fuckers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacheryah View Post
    4312 was a workhorse formation based on that incredible selection of cm's who compensated for so many flaws the formation had

    Our 4231 is vastly superior with a weak as $#@! central midfield. Its the way forward, especially with all the talent at cm we got to improve it
    We won't compete well with the big teams that use 3 man midfields if we continue with our 2. It just won't work. There's a reason all the best sides use the diamond or a 4-3-3. Being able to match up in midfield is hugely important.

  6. #686
    Juventuz champion LiquidPLP's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelPiero no10 View Post
    We won't compete well with the big teams that use 3 man midfields if we continue with our 2. It just won't work. There's a reason all the best sides use the diamond or a 4-3-3. Being able to match up in midfield is hugely important.
    It's all about wingers doing that job. You could force AM/SS to do it but we've got Dybala there, so nah As I said, you force wingers to help with defending. That means those guys must be heavily rotated but that's not a problem with our squad.

    We won't compete? Last season we demolished Barca and a few smaller sides with this setup. We collapsed in the final but that hardly had anything to do with the formation itself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DelPiero no10 View Post
    We won't compete well with the big teams that use 3 man midfields if we continue with our 2. It just won't work. There's a reason all the best sides use the diamond or a 4-3-3. Being able to match up in midfield is hugely important.
    It's all about wingers doing that job. You could force AM/SS to do it but we've got Dybala there, so nah As I said, you force wingers to help with defending. That means those guys must be heavily rotated but that's not a problem with our squad.

    We won't compete? Last season we demolished Barca and a few smaller sides with this setup. We collapsed in the final but that hardly had anything to do with the formation itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidPLP View Post
    It's all about wingers doing that job. You could force AM/SS to do it but we've got Dybala there, so nah As I said, you force wingers to help with defending. That means those guys must be heavily rotated but that's not a problem with our squad.

    We won't compete? Last season we demolished Barca and a few smaller sides with this setup. We collapsed in the final but that hardly had anything to do with the formation itself.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's all about wingers doing that job. You could force AM/SS to do it but we've got Dybala there, so nah As I said, you force wingers to help with defending. That means those guys must be heavily rotated but that's not a problem with our squad.

    We won't compete? Last season we demolished Barca and a few smaller sides with this setup. We collapsed in the final but that hardly had anything to do with the formation itself.
    The Barca set up in the first leg was absurd and left them open to counters. In the final we played with two midfielders against what's essentially 4 midfielders and they spent the whole second half chasing shadows, how isn't the formation to be blamed?
    Problem with forcing wingers to do that job is that they end up chasing fullbacks, all the big sides have aggressive fullbacks who go up and down the pitch. the moment that happens the midfielders get isolated against opposition midfielders and it's a tough day in the office.

  8. #688
    Juventuz champion LiquidPLP's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelPiero no10 View Post
    The Barca set up in the first leg was absurd and left them open to counters. In the final we played with two midfielders against what's essentially 4 midfielders and they spent the whole second half chasing shadows, how isn't the formation to be blamed?
    Problem with forcing wingers to do that job is that they end up chasing fullbacks, all the big sides have aggressive fullbacks who go up and down the pitch. the moment that happens the midfielders get isolated against opposition midfielders and it's a tough day in the office.
    It isn't. Mandzukic and Pjanic were injured, that's 2 players out of 4 that should keep the shape. Allegri $#@!ed up with this, because he should have changed the injured players instead of keeping them on the pitch.

    Now, let's not downplay the beating of Barca, shall we? The same Barca that threw PSG out of the window just a couple of weeks earlier. We were brilliant, that was one of the best Juve performance I've ever seen. Anything to fit one's agenda is ok I guess.

    3 man midfield is no silver bullet. To get the most out of it, they have to be superior to opposition's midfield + the wingers in 433 have to be WC. It's funny to read all that $#@! about being outnumbered/isolated etc. vs Madrid but Barca also outnumbered us in the midfield, because they play pretty much the same formation as Madrid. One we beat comfortably, the other one beat us, so maybe it's not a formation issue after all?

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    Juventuz champion pitbull's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidPLP View Post
    It isn't. Mandzukic and Pjanic were injured, that's 2 players out of 4 that should keep the shape. Allegri $#@!ed up with this, because he should have changed the injured players instead of keeping them on the pitch.

    Now, let's not downplay the beating of Barca, shall we? The same Barca that threw PSG out of the window just a couple of weeks earlier. We were brilliant, that was one of the best Juve performance I've ever seen. Anything to fit one's agenda is ok I guess.

    3 man midfield is no silver bullet. To get the most out of it, they have to be superior to opposition's midfield + the wingers in 433 have to be WC. It's funny to read all that $#@! about being outnumbered/isolated etc. vs Madrid but Barca also outnumbered us in the midfield, because they play pretty much the same formation as Madrid. One we beat comfortably, the other one beat us, so maybe it's not a formation issue after all?
    we were brilliant, pretty much all of our players did either fantastic, great or good. but then again a similar Barca trashed a similar Juve at the start of this season, which makes you wonder of the stability of our 4231 in the hardest tests. I think it's very risky playing a 2 man midfield against a 3 man midfield if both teams are similar in strength, I'm not saying we can't win in that scenario, but a lot of things have to go right for us to succeed.
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    Juventuz legend Fr3sh's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish View Post
    He did a fine job tonight. Saw him live with all the lads - Edi, Martín and our best freebie next year Giménez.
    Did u say high to Martin for me?
    Völler is here with DAi.

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    Optimist Prime Hustini's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidPLP View Post
    It isn't. Mandzukic and Pjanic were injured, that's 2 players out of 4 that should keep the shape. Allegri $#@!ed up with this, because he should have changed the injured players instead of keeping them on the pitch.

    Now, let's not downplay the beating of Barca, shall we? The same Barca that threw PSG out of the window just a couple of weeks earlier. We were brilliant, that was one of the best Juve performance I've ever seen. Anything to fit one's agenda is ok I guess.

    3 man midfield is no silver bullet. To get the most out of it, they have to be superior to opposition's midfield + the wingers in 433 have to be WC. It's funny to read all that $#@! about being outnumbered/isolated etc. vs Madrid but Barca also outnumbered us in the midfield, because they play pretty much the same formation as Madrid. One we beat comfortably, the other one beat us, so maybe it's not a formation issue after all?
    We didn't have a strong bench to replace the injured players ergo my post yesterday about SMS
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    Juventuz champion LiquidPLP's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbull View Post
    we were brilliant, pretty much all of our players did either fantastic, great or good. but then again a similar Barca trashed a similar Juve at the start of this season, which makes you wonder of the stability of our 4231 in the hardest tests. I think it's very risky playing a 2 man midfield against a 3 man midfield if both teams are similar in strength, I'm not saying we can't win in that scenario, but a lot of things have to go right for us to succeed.
    Hey, but we played 433 vs Barca lately, didn't we? This confirms my "3 man midfield is no silver bullet".

    For every team a lot of things have to go right in order to succeed. Remember RM vs Bayern last year? So many things went RM's way. Some even claimed that RM didn't deserve to be in the final.

    We lost to Barca recently but it was expected. It was a very bad time for us to play them on their turf. Pretty much nobody wins there and we were quite a different side in comparison to last season's Juve:
    Bonucci > Benatia
    Dani Alves > MDS
    Mandzukic > Douglas Costa

    young Benancur did well but no Cuadrado was a problem too. Matuidi is better than Khedira in my book but we were so bad going forward in that game, the guy was all over the place.

    Other than that we weren't in top form physically and Juve relies on this a lot, especially against Spanish sides. At the beginning of a season you're never in top form and so we weren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hustini View Post
    We didn't have a strong bench to replace the injured players ergo my post yesterday about SMS
    Hust I get you man. I really like SMS too - I just don't think it'll happen if we get Can. If the management decides to do that, I'll be more than happy He's a really promising player.

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    Optimist Prime Hustini's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidPLP View Post
    Hey, but we played 433 vs Barca lately, didn't we? This confirms my "3 man midfield is no silver bullet".

    For every team a lot of things have to go right in order to succeed. Remember RM vs Bayern last year? So many things went RM's way. Some even claimed that RM didn't deserve to be in the final.

    We lost to Barca recently but it was expected. It was a very bad time for us to play them on their turf. Pretty much nobody wins there and we were quite a different side in comparison to last season's Juve:
    Bonucci > Benatia
    Dani Alves > MDS
    Mandzukic > Douglas Costa

    young Benancur did well but no Cuadrado was a problem too. Matuidi is better than Khedira in my book but we were so bad going forward in that game, the guy was all over the place.

    Other than that we weren't in top form physically and Juve relies on this a lot, especially against Spanish sides. At the beginning of a season you're never in top form and so we weren't.



    Hust I get you man. I really like SMS too - I just don't think it'll happen if we get Can. If the management decides to do that, I'll be more than happy He's a really promising player.
    would you rather spend money on SMS or Can for free? Wonder who would have a better impact
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    Juventuz champion LiquidPLP's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustini View Post
    would you rather spend money on SMS or Can for free? Wonder who would have a better impact
    Well, looking at our squad I think our needs lie somewhere else...

    1. RB
    2. CF
    3. CM/winger

    If we consider Spinazzola for next Summer, I guess he'll be the starter for RB. We really need someone to compete with Higuain though. I have no idea who tbh

    CM/winger - here it could be SMS. I can imagine Allegri using SMS the way he uses Mandzukic tbh Or simply as B2B in 433.

    Overall I'd take SMS over Can but the money factor is hard to predict here. We don't know how much we'll have to spend and what priorities there will be come the Summer.

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    Bentancur: 'Juve improved me'
    By Football Italia staff


    Rodrigo Bentancur believes he is already improving as a player at Juventus and “put on 5kg of muscle,” but was above all impressed by Gigi Buffon.

    The Uruguay international only turned 20 in July and arrived at Juve as part of the Carlos Tevez move to Boca Juniors.

    “Since I’ve been in Italy, my recovery times have improved and I am slowly getting better as a player too,” Bentancur told Sport 890.

    “For example, they have already worked on the way I mark opponents. Since coming here, I have also put on 5kg of muscle.”

    However, it was the human element that won over Bentancur.

    “On my first day, Buffon received me in this incredible way. He surprised me, as he knew who I was, he knew my name. He’s a phenomenon and always gives me advice. Buffon is on another level.”

    - - - Updated - - -

    Buffon
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    That's the kind of thing we'll miss when the legend retires, his way with people is phenomenal.
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    Optimist Prime Hustini's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuveJay View Post
    That's the kind of thing we'll miss when the legend retires, his way with people is phenomenal.
    Exactly.
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    Release clause? Suns's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustini View Post
    Bentancur: 'Juve improved me'
    By Football Italia staff


    Rodrigo Bentancur believes he is already improving as a player at Juventus and “put on 5kg of muscle,” but was above all impressed by Gigi Buffon.

    The Uruguay international only turned 20 in July and arrived at Juve as part of the Carlos Tevez move to Boca Juniors.

    “Since I’ve been in Italy, my recovery times have improved and I am slowly getting better as a player too,” Bentancur told Sport 890.

    “For example, they have already worked on the way I mark opponents. Since coming here, I have also put on 5kg of muscle.”

    However, it was the human element that won over Bentancur.

    “On my first day, Buffon received me in this incredible way. He surprised me, as he knew who I was, he knew my name. He’s a phenomenon and always gives me advice. Buffon is on another level.”

    - - - Updated - - -

    Buffon

    Oh $#@!, Agricola

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuveJay View Post
    That's the kind of thing we'll miss when the legend retires, his way with people is phenomenal.
    We must must must hire him as quickly as possible when he retires. Not ambassador BS or such other, but hands on day to day presence like director or team manager etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns View Post

    Oh $#@!, Agricola
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