The best Italian coach - Polls - Juventuz Forums - Page 5

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  • Allegri

    28 50.00%
  • Ancelotti

    17 30.36%
  • Conte

    11 19.64%
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  1. #81
    Pretty Handsome Awkward DAiDEViL's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by zizinho View Post
    if Allegri can make Ronaldo work, imo hes the best coach in history
    Best coach in history is the one that makes Balotelli work
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  2. #82
    Juventuz legend Marc's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by zizinho View Post
    yes and? do you praise Enrique for making Neymar-Messi-Suarez work or do you call him "a joke of a coach"? Conte would never won the scudettos without Marotta getting him Pirlo, Vidal, Lichtsteiner, Vucinic etc. same for Allegri and any other coach that will come here in the futute.

    remember how Allegri lost half his team in 2015 and still won the scudetto after the worst start in club history? is there a record for that?

    records mean $#@!, trophies is the only thing that counts for a club like Juve. do you remember how we lost Vidal and lost the EL in 2014 due to chasing a meaningless record? i do

    Pirlo retired, Pogba was sold for 110M and Vidal is a threat to the community. a terrorist basically. what exactly should we blame him for?
    Man, you are delusional. I will respond you later with more details, just remind me. I will just say this: Conte = 3 Serie A trophies, and a Premier League trophy coming up as a debut coach in a foreign league with great competition. Allegri = 3 Serie A trophies, 2 Coppa Italia's. By the way, Allegri started his coaching career earlier. Did Allegri manage to win even 1 European trophy? No. So how exactly is he a better coach? Judging by their stats, they are about the same.
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  3. #83
    Pretty Handsome Awkward DAiDEViL's Avatar

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    I agree. We went back because the players knew it.

    Like they would have known any other system played under any other manager for 3 years.
    DAiDEViL is a minority of minorities: female assigned at birth, mostly black, disabled, genderqueer, aromantic, pansexual, kinky, demisexual, poor, noetisexual, polyamorous, singleish, RA, a survivor, intersex, bipolar AND left-handed. 😭😰

  4. #84
    Koul Khara! Osman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigiventus View Post
    When did I ever say "Conte 352"?

    You all mention something, I reply, and then you making it seem like I'm the one saying these things... ok.

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    @Post Ironic @Bianconero_Aus
    Last edited by Osman; 27.03.2017 at 15:17.
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  5. #85
    Pretty Handsome Awkward DAiDEViL's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Man, you are delusional.
    A bit rich coming from you.
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  6. #86
    Juventuz legend Marc's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by zizinho View Post
    Vidal is a threat to the community. a terrorist basically.
    So why the hell did the GOAT Marotta buy him then?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DAiDEViL View Post
    A bit rich coming from you.
    How am I delusional? By stating that Arnie is cooler than Stallone? Which like 75% of the world's population think so?
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Frank Rijkaard won the CL and he's a joke of a coach. Seems the same scenario is with Luis Enrique.
    Benitez for instance comes to mind as-well.
    Asif mon bebe..
    Quote Originally Posted by C.Martin View Post
    For 3 years I have wondered why my friends kept calling Allegri for Augustus. I couldn't sleep at nights thinking about it. I've been sitting at my desk for hours every week trying to figure it out, coming up with calculations and formulas that weren't correct. Then it hit me, the answer was right in front me all time but I didn't notice it. Augustus was the greatest emperor of the Roman Empire, owning almost all of europe. People loved him. People feared him. It's the same with Allegri, although we know him better as Euromaxx. Allegri, greatest coach in the world at the moment, people love him. People fear him. We need to understand that. Allegri 4 life

    And why my female friend keep calling Allegri for Peter North I dont need to figure out.

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  8. #88
    Juventuz legend Marc's Avatar

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    Now we have serious discussion going on.

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    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurri7 View Post
    Benitez for instance comes to mind as-well.
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  9. #89
    Koul Khara! Osman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurri7 View Post
    Benitez for instance comes to mind as-well.
    Nah, Benitez isnt a joke coach back then, he was really suited for Livepool and his tactics were apt for the underdog mentality and organisation he instilled in his pool. It wasnt a lasting thing and he is surely not a top coach for me outside that set up, absolute joke afterwards , but certaintly what he did with Pool wasnt a joke. It wasnt individuals carrying as much as it was with Rijkaard (plus his assistant) or to lesser extent Luis Enrique.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    Nah, Benitez isnt a joke coach back then, he was really suited for Livepool and his tactics were apt for the underdog mentality and organisation he instilled in his pool. It wasnt a lasting thing and he is surely not a top coach for me outside that set up, absolute joke afterwards , but certaintly what he did with Pool wasnt a joke. It wasnt individuals carrying as much as it was with Rijkaard (plus his assistant) or to lesser extent Luis Enrique.
    Benitez at liverpool:

    04/05 (5th in the league)
    05/06 (3rd in the league)
    06/07 (3rd in the league)
    07/08 (4th in the league)
    08/09 (2nd in the league)
    09/10 (7th in the league)

    6 seasons at Liverpool finishing 2nd once and not even a threat to Ferguson. He settled mostly for CL qualification, he may not be a joke literally but by the standards we are talking he can be considered an average coach.

    And my point was that Andy suggested Allegri never won the CL yet, Benitez won the CL and yet he's not half the coach Max is, no doubt about that if someone really knows his football.
    Asif mon bebe..
    Quote Originally Posted by C.Martin View Post
    For 3 years I have wondered why my friends kept calling Allegri for Augustus. I couldn't sleep at nights thinking about it. I've been sitting at my desk for hours every week trying to figure it out, coming up with calculations and formulas that weren't correct. Then it hit me, the answer was right in front me all time but I didn't notice it. Augustus was the greatest emperor of the Roman Empire, owning almost all of europe. People loved him. People feared him. It's the same with Allegri, although we know him better as Euromaxx. Allegri, greatest coach in the world at the moment, people love him. People fear him. We need to understand that. Allegri 4 life

    And why my female friend keep calling Allegri for Peter North I dont need to figure out.

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  11. #91
    Koul Khara! Osman's Avatar

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    Winning CL alone isnt ofcourse the only criteria, tho consistently or convincingly doing is the hall mark of the best coaches. To differentiate the Ancelotti, Peps, Mourinhos etc from Di Matteos, Rijkaards, and yes Benitez too.


    But what i meant with Liverpool is, tho he was mediocre 2nd half of his years with them, he still did in overall a quite good job for them. He was a cup/tourno coach, and his Euro pedigree was real good for club like that. Because lets face it, its still Liverpool who havent done $#@! before and after him in long long time. Yeah he didnt really content for league titles except for twice a little while, but not too many expected that of Pool. Nor was he the ideal coach for such a marathon underdog goal like league title. But dont agree saying he was joke or average with them, inconsistent latter, but mainly did real good job with them. Average coaches are the coaches that came after him or were his predesssors in Pool. Or most of the run of the mill coaches he faced in EPL at the time. We shouldnt forget that he had a profound tactical influence on english football at the time, in a league that was starved of tactical organisation. Both him and Mourinho pretty much made the league a 4-2-3-1 conservative league for a while.
    Last edited by Osman; 27.03.2017 at 15:56.
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    How am I delusional? By stating that Arnie is cooler than Stallone? Which like 75% of the world's population think so?
    You like and rate polls so much, don't you? then look at the poll above and

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  13. #93
    Juventuz legend zizinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigiventus View Post
    But there is a big difference between saying "Conte's 352" like you were claiming I was saying, and this.

    Allegri didn't return to the 3-5-2 because it was what he wanted, in lots of interviews back then (2014/15) when they were asking him about it he always said he wanted a back 4 but had no other choice. I remember a quote before a game back then when he said "If I had a right back, I would play it". Because at this point Licht had heart problems and we had no other RB. So Allegri went back to the 3-5-2. (Beginning of the 2014/15 season). It was the best choice for our players too of course, given the circumstances.

    Our squad now has changed a lot from Conte's days, now it looks like Allegri's team. Back in his first 2 seasons, not so much. We had 0 left backs before Evra came. Only 1 right back (who ended having heart problems) and a CB/RB who was always injured. Obviously this was a team shaped for Conte's tactics, as it makes sense because Conte was here for 3 seasons. Hence why at the begging I said that Allegri's Juve had been built on Conte's.

    Then in the summer 2015 we had all these changes and we ended up sticking with the back 3 for the most part. It made the most sense. The players knew it. Our success had been built on it. Earlier this season journalists were asking Allegri if he was gonna ditch the back 3, his reply was that how could he ditch what had offered so many guarantees?

    Whose influence is that? whats wrong with recognizing that we had a particularly influential coach that built foundations for a successful team?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly. I don't understand whats the problem with it.
    It was a bit different. When Allegri arrived in the summer of 2014, we were still playing a 352. He sticked with that for a while (because hes not a moron like Pep, whod come to a treble winner and change the formation, while moving the best RB in the world at that moment to DM). We were playing like usual in Serie A but it was clear that at some point we would switch to a 4man defense, and once we did we went on to an almost treble winning season. During the summer we changed the team a lot. Allegri wanted an AM, but there werent any worthy ones in the market so we settled with Hernanes and Cuadrado. Allegri tried 4312, 433, 442 with them, but none worked, which seemingly was the best fit for that group of players once our injured players returned and Pogba, Cuadrado, AS and Dybala caught form. This season we continued on last seasons success, so we signed someone improvements and replacements for the 352 (CF, CM, CB, RWB). But since we didnt have the physicality in the midfield to play it successfully anymore, Allegri pulled an ace out of his sleeve and so we have the 4231 now. So with Allegri we went:
    2014/15: 352->4312 (433 few times with Coman-Pepe)
    2015/16: 4312->433->442->352 (played 451 vs Bayern)
    2016/17: 352->4312/4321->4231

    Its similar to what you das but we never changed back to 352 in 2014/15, we started the season with it and moved to a 4312 around October. It was in 2015/16 we went with every possible formation before changing back to 352. Not trying to argue anything, just fixing your statements.

    I think we can agree on that Conte deserves credit for his 3 year period here ofcourse, so does Allegri for his (and Marotta for both). But what I have a problem with is giving someone credit for another coaches success (not necessary talking about you), as well as for players performances beyond his time at the club. If for example Allegri leaves in the summer and we get Spalletti, who goes on to win a CL and 3 scudetti, and people go on and say it was because of Allegri installiing a winning mentality and formation in Europe, id argue against that too

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DAiDEViL View Post
    Best coach in history is the one that makes Balotelli work


    btw, would people be OK with Cesare as our next coach. And between him, Montella and Spalletti, who would people prefer
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  14. #94
    Koul Khara! Osman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by zizinho View Post

    btw, would people be OK with Cesare as our next coach. And between him, Montella and Spalletti, who would people prefer
    Spalletti, Montella and $#@! Prandelli.
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  15. #95
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    Few coaches in the Serie A would I put below Prandelli for us.

  16. #96
    Juventuz legend zizinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Man, you are delusional. I will respond you later with more details, just remind me. I will just say this: Conte = 3 Serie A trophies, and a Premier League trophy coming up as a debut coach in a foreign league with great competition. Allegri = 3 Serie A trophies, 2 Coppa Italia's. By the way, Allegri started his coaching career earlier. Did Allegri manage to win even 1 European trophy? No. So how exactly is he a better coach? Judging by their stats, they are about the same.
    Allegri coached scudetto contenders for 4 seasons, winning 3 times (would have been 4 if not for a big injury crisis in 2012). Conte coached scudetto contenders for 3 seasons, won 3 times. Both are likely to win again this season. The difference is, Allegri had more success in Europe, even when he had a much inferior team (if ref didnt give non existent PKs in 2012, and Balo wasnt Cup tied in 2013, they would have kicked out fagca two years in a row, the 2nd time with an abysmal team). Conte has yet to prove himself internationally, while Allegri has already done so
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  17. #97
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    Doesn't a good Euro campaign also mean doing well in Europe

  18. #98
    Juventuz legend zizinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    Spalletti, Montella and $#@! Prandelli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigiventus View Post
    Few coaches in the Serie A would I put below Prandelli for us.
    not rating him as a coach or personal preference? (i havent followed him at all since leaving Azzurri bench but he did well at Fiorentina and had an Euro final with the NT)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerval View Post
    Doesn't a good Euro campaign also mean doing well in Europe
    did Conte have a good Euro though? QF is not good enough for Italy, a nation that always has the goal to win
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    Prandelli had a mental collapse only on par with the worst of Leverkusen or Roma defeats after the euro finals. He became the personification of a weak mentality, his unjustifiable decisions leading up to the world cup made everyone in Italy hate him. He countered that with constant scapegoating and complaining to the media about his own failures. The he followed that up with a massive blunder with Galatasaray, getting fired, taking a long break only to go coach Valencia, suck, and then quit 2 months later.

  20. #100
    Juventuz legend zizinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigiventus View Post
    Prandelli had a mental collapse only on par with the worst of Leverkusen or Roma defeats after the euro finals. He became the personification of a weak mentality, his unjustifiable decisions leading up to the world cup made everyone in Italy hate him. He countered that with constant scapegoating and complaining to the media about his own failures. The he followed that up with a massive blunder with Galatasaray, getting fired, taking a long break only to go coach Valencia, suck, and then quit 2 months later.
    lol yeah, now i remember that he coached Valencia, completely forgot about it. didnt really pay attention to the details about him during his Italy stint. the things i remember him for is the very good Euro, a decent Confederations Cup and a mediocre WC. but according to what you say. he was a disaster. completely different from the image i had of him from his Fiorentina days
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