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  1. #81
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    hey im a christian too but this is a ramadan topic can we please steer into another thread or go online?

  2. #82
    Coach gray's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by [LAC] ] ++
    hey im a christian too but this is a ramadan topic can we please steer into another thread or go online?
    Read the bottom part of my sig

    Nahhh j/k guys, I'm not here to take over threads, but BLAME GLENN! HE WAS THE CURIOUS ONE!


  3. #83
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    neither of u 2 are online. why dont u carry it on there?


    respect glenn and gray

  4. #84
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    I'm at uni atm, and I don't have an internet connection at home for about a week (moved house)

    And yes, you should respect glenn and gray

  5. #85
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    glenn i respect.

    gray too i respect......your two-ply, soft, and cushiony, with more sheets per roll than the leading competitor. why wouldnt i respect you?

  6. #86
    Coach gray's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by [LAC] ] ++
    glenn i respect.

    gray too i respect......your two-ply, soft, and cushiony, with more sheets per roll than the leading competitor. why wouldnt i respect you?
    Wrong. three-ply

    Has anyone tried that stuff? I can't afford it :down: but i imagine it'd be quite a luxury


    there goes my respect, right?


  7. #87
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    thats the beauty of being online. you have no reputation to keep up

    i never even knew 3-ply existed!

    why dont you just fold it over one?

  8. #88
    Coach gray's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by [LAC] ] ++
    thats the beauty of being online. you have no reputation to keep up

    i never even knew 3-ply existed!

    why dont you just fold it over one?
    Because that would be 4-ply

    And it's NOT THE SAME! That's like folding over 1-ply and thinking it'll be the same feeling as 2-ply

  9. #89
    Banned sallyinzaghi's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++






    What are the other pillars of Islam?
    1) the syahadah
    - saying and believing: "i bear witness that there is no god except Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger"

    2) praying 5 times a day
    - this is the best!

    3) fasting during the month of ramdhan

    4) paying the zakat
    -a certain amount of either money/gold/fruits/anything that is stated, i don't know how to tell them in english is paid, and the money/gold/fruit/whatever that u have given will be given to the needy

    5) the hajj
    -pilgrimage to makkah!

    *some say ramadhan is the fourth pillar of islam, however it is mostly believed its the third
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  10. #90
    Banned sallyinzaghi's Avatar

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    gray i have a question. i dont want to be rude or anything, but .. how can jesus be a man, son of god and god himself ? its unclear

    second, i heard that jesus died to let his people go to heaven (sort of a sacrifice or soemthing), and i know christians believe in moses etc. so if jesus died, for and the people after him get to go to heaven, what happens to the people before jesus, and if u need jesus to die to go to heaven, what was moses doing on the earth in the first place?

    i THINK i sound a little bit rude but i dont mean to, im just curious k?
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    Coach gray's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
    gray i have a question. i dont want to be rude or anything, but .. how can jesus be a man, son of god and god himself ? its unclear
    No sally, you don't sound rude at all. I love answering questions, and i'm glad your curious


    God could become man for the same reason Jesus could perform miracles and God could create the universe out of nothing: namely, that God can do as He pleases. Anything that is not immoral that can possibly be done, can be done by God. "With God all things are possible" - Matthew 19:26

    If God wanted to, He could take on the form of 100 people and walk into your room right now and speak to you at the same time, or each one saying something different, but they'd all be the same person...God.

    But God doesn't do it that way. Instead, years before He came, He announced His coming (Old Testament prophecies). Then when He did come, He told us exactly who He was. For example, "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58), "The Father and I are one" (John 10:31), and "Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9). To make His point clear, Jesus performed miracles that no other human being has performed, the climax of which was His resurrection from the dead.

    We can think of Jesus as the invisible God taking on a visible form. He did this in order to communicate His love to us, to show us the way to Himself, and ultimately to provide the way to Himself. Jesus did this by allowing Himself to be put to death, crucified, for the forgiveness of our sins. The Bible says that, in Jesus, God "made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross" - Philippians 2:5

    second, i heard that jesus died to let his people go to heaven (sort of a sacrifice or soemthing), and i know christians believe in moses etc. so if jesus died, for and the people after him get to go to heaven, what happens to the people before jesus, and if u need jesus to die to go to heaven, what was moses doing on the earth in the first place?

    i THINK i sound a little bit rude but i dont mean to, im just curious k?
    Since the fall of man after Adam's original sin, the basis of salvation has always been the death of Christ. No one, either prior to the cross or since the cross, would ever be saved without that one pivotal event in the history of the world. Christ's death paid the penalty for past sins of BC (before Christ) people and future sins of AD people.

    The requirement for salvation has always been faith. The object of one's faith for salvation has always been God. Before Jesus came, it was written "Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him" Psalm 2:12.

    Abraham believed God and that was enough for God to account it to him for righteousness. The Old Testament sacrificial system did not take away sin. What has changed through the ages is the content of a believer's faith. Adam believed the promise God gave that the Seed of the woman would conquer Satan. Adam believed Him, demonstrated by the name he gave Eve and the Lord indicated His acceptance immediately by covering them with coats of skin. At that point that is all Adam knew, but he believed it.

    Abraham believed God according to the promises and new revelation God gave him in Genesis 12 and 15. Prior to Moses, no Scripture was written, but mankind was responsible for what God had revealed. Throughout the Old Testament, believers came to salvation because they believed that God would someday take care of their sin problem.



    I hope that answers your question



    So what about believers in the time Jesus was on Earth, prior to the cross and resurrection, what did they believe?

    "Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day" (Matthew 16:21).

    Jesus' disciples, didn't know the full truth, yet they were saved because they believed that God would take care of their sin problems. They didn't exactly know how He would accomplish that, any more than how Adam, Abraham, Moses, or David knew, but they believed God.

  12. #92
    Juventuz star Zizou's Avatar

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    I think this actually has become a very interesting thread as long as well respect each other's religion

    Wow Gray that was a long and complicated post

    Let me try to summarize what you just said for Sally's sake

    gray i have a question. i dont want to be rude or anything, but .. how can jesus be a man, son of god and god himself ? its unclear
    Jesus is the son of God. He was sent on earth as a man to save us and open the gates to Heaven basically. He is God as well, because God is one, made up of the father, son and Holy spirit. It sounds complicated but think of it as Trezeguet-Del Piero-Di Vaio..that's juve's attack and you see them as one entity not as individuals

    what was moses doing on the earth in the first place?
    Moses is a prophet who preached about Jesus's coming. Which brings me to the next question, do you guys recognise Jesus since he's being mentioned by Moses as God's son?

    And a question for Gray:

    You said you're a protestant right? What I know about your religion is that it was made by Henry VIII because he wanted to be granted divorce but the Pope of that time did not allow him. So he founded the protestant church which let people get divorces. Are there any other differences? Or are our religions very similar? Cos after all we share the same basic background.
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    Juventuz star aressandro10's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


    Okay, I don't mean to rip on Catholicism or anything, but I don't see why people should go and confess to a human their sins, in order to be forgiven.

    IMO all you need to do is repent with your heart that you've sinned, and accept that Christ died to forgive your sins.

    I've never been to confession in my life, but I'm forgiven
    err.. gray.. u always says that you are forgiven... does that means that christians belive that whateva they do in this live they will go to heaven ..
    and do Jesus sacrifised himself for the sake of all mankind or only to those who follow his teachings?
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  14. #94
    Banned sallyinzaghi's Avatar

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    but gray (again i dont mean this in a rude way, i just suck at typing, you should see my innocent face then u'll believe me hehe)

    well, if a christian commits a horrible crime & believes jesus died and so that he's forgiven, he's forgiven?

    thanks for the explanation on jesus being god etc. in ur explanation on that i realize how christianity is different from islam.

    one more thing, i read somewhere that jesus's disciples are amazing but untried. do christians today rely mostly on the new testament instead of the old one?

    oh btw, i dont know if u know this but i just thought i'd mention it- in islam, abraham david moses etc. were our prophets too
    Last edited by sallyinzaghi; 03.11.2003 at 18:57.
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  15. #95
    Juventuz star Zizou's Avatar

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    To clarify, you must repent and ask for forgiveness to be forgiven. If you are not sorry and don't as for forgiveness you don't go to heaven.

    And Jesus died for all the world, so people can spread the good news about God.

    Sally or whoever, I hzave some questions:

    - So who is your God if we have the same prophets?
    - Do we have the same one?
    - Are all Islams like the ones that are shown on the news that commit suicide attacks for their God?
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  16. #96
    Coach gray's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++
    err.. gray.. u always says that you are forgiven... does that means that christians belive that whateva they do in this live they will go to heaven ..
    Yes, as long as they accept that Jesus died to redeem man from all sins, past present and future.

    ++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++
    and do Jesus sacrifised himself for the sake of all mankind or only to those who follow his teachings?
    Jesus died for the sake of all mankind, all men are forgiven for their sins, but they are only redeemed if they repent and accept the free gift of Christ's salvation.

    Matthew 20:28

    "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

    1 Timothy 4:10

    (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

    (bolds mine)

    1 Corinthians 15:22

    "As in Adam ALL die even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive."

    (bolds mine)

    John 1:7

    "the Light, that ALL men through him might believe."

    (bolds mine)

    1 Timothy 2:3-4

    "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

    (bolds mine)

    ++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
    but gray (again i dont mean this in a rude way, i just suck at typing, you should see my innocent face then u'll believe me hehe)
    Dude chill out I'm not offended by any of your questions, and i know you're not being rude

    ++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
    well, if a christian commits a horrible crime & believes jesus died and so that he's forgiven, he's forgiven?
    Yes. See above.

    The thing is, though, Christians don't say "Hey! We can do whatever we want now that we're forgiven! Let's $#@!, pillage and murder because there's no consequences".

    When we are forgiven by Christ, the natural reaction is not to sin anymore, since repentance by definition is the turning around of your former ways.

    "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" 2 Corinthians 5:17

    one more thing, i read somewhere that jesus's disciples are amazing but untried.
    I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by that. Amazing but untried?

    do christians today rely mostly on the new testament instead of the old one?
    Well the teachings of Jesus are all in the New Testament, so the Gospels are taken from there, but this isn't to say that the Old Testament is completely ignored. The Old Testament tells of the coming of Jesus, and shows God's sovereignty, that he kept his covenant (promise) that the Saviour would be one of David's descendants.

    In other words, the New Testament is a fulfillment of all that is said in the Old Testament.

    oh btw, i dont know if u know this but i just thought i'd mention it- in islam, abraham david moses etc. were our prophets too
    I knew that

    ++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
    And a question for Gray:

    You said you're a protestant right? What I know about your religion is that it was made by Henry VIII because he wanted to be granted divorce but the Pope of that time did not allow him. So he founded the protestant church which let people get divorces. Are there any other differences? Or are our religions very similar? Cos after all we share the same basic background.
    I actually wasn't aware that the Protestant church allows divorces. Maybe they're allowed, but certainly not condoned. I don't know much at all about the history of my religion, and honestly I really don't care. The only thing that matters to me is what the Bible says, and the fact that all denominations use the same Bible.

    As for the differences between Catholics and Protestants...

    First of all, there are some differences on the attitude to the Bible .

    Catholics think that the church has more power than the Holy Bible since it was the church that decided which volume belonged in the Bible, so that the right of explanation to the Bible belongs to the Vatican . But they seldom explain the Bible to the seekers and the new followers . Also, Catholics believe in Deuterocanonicals, also called Apochrypha, including eighteen books other than those in the Old and New Testament

    However, Protestants believe that Christendom has acknowledged the Bible but has no right to judge it, and they only believe in the Old Testament and the New Testament . They also believe that the Gospels will not spread without our reading the Bible .

    Second, they do not agree with each other on some aspects of worship . Catholics worship statues, whereas Protestants, because of the second of the Ten Commandments, do not worship any image, even if it is an image of Jesus, for it is not Christ Himself but only an artificial image .

    Also, Catholics worship Madonna, sometimes even more than Messiah . They believe Maria, the Blessed Virgin, had no original sin, since one of the reasons of that Jesus had no sin was that His mother had no original sin, so that they also believe that she was sexless and had only one child, Jesus Christ . Catholics believe she has gone to Heaven alive, the same as Jesus Christ, to be a mediator between God and human beings .

    But Protestants say that, although she has been a saint and worth our admiration, she has by no means been a goddess and thus should not be worshipped, according to the Ten Commandments . A human, though he or she is a saint, we should not kneel to her . Protestants have also found out in the Bible that she had three sons and some daughters .

    Protestants believe that there is only one middleman between the Father and the human beings, who is Jesus Christ .

    Third, there are some other disagreements between Catholics and Protestants. Catholics believe in purgatory, but Protestants insist that there be no purgatory . Since the Bible has not talked about purgatory and told us those who believe in Him could be forgiven and would stay in paradise with Him, I do not believe in purgatory .

    Catholics also believe in asceticism, not allowing themselves bodily pleasures, whereas Protestants agree that a man should marry a woman . Many Catholics have become friars or nuns in order to serve God better . Nevertheless, a man is created to leave his parents and marry a woman, and a woman is created to leave her parents and marry a man . According to the New Testament, an ascetic is much easier to be attacked by Satan than a person who lives a normal family life.

    Catholics think that the Pope makes no mistakes since he is God's representative in the world . Nevertheless, Protestants believe all persons are sinners though Christians have been saved out of sins by Jesus Christ . Thus a sinner will certainly make a mistake whether he or she is saved by Him or not and by no means be God's representative in the world .

    Catholics believe that the no one but priests have privilege to confess a person's sins . However, Protestants believe that since Jesus Christ sacrificed for the people on the cross, anyone can confess his or her own sins in front of God directly . I think the right of forgiving one's sins is God's, so that anyone should not take over God's right .


  17. #97
    The Enforcer Zlatan's Avatar

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    Preching christianity in a thread about the biggest Islamic holiday.

    Nice Graham

  18. #98
    Juventuz champion vitoria_Ally's Avatar

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    Yeah, I thought the same...
    As shade that's longer, when cast from far away,
    Makes the mourning circle much wider sprawl...
    So will my figure, the farther off I stay,
    Becloud your memory with a thicker pall.

  19. #99
    Coach gray's Avatar

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    ++ [ originally posted by GOAT ] ++
    Preching christianity in a thread about the biggest Islamic holiday.

    Nice Graham
    Hey, I was the one who was asking about Islam in the first place, then people started asking me about Christianity... if anyone has questions, feel free to direct me to the appropriate thread, but at the moment i can't be bothered navigating and i'll answer questions where they're posted...

  20. #100
    The Enforcer Zlatan's Avatar

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    Oh go and become the Pope or something



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