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  1. #1
    起死回生 JuveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicCB View Post
    I don't have time to respond to the whole thing right now, but I just wanted to note that Inter bought Sneijder for 15 million last year, while Van der Vaart cost around 10 million euro this year from Real Madrid. We could have bought Rafael instead of Martinez, while Milan got Ibra for free this year and a 24 million option so smart transfers are available, not to mention that if we had the money for Dzeko, we had the money for Benz. I just dislike this mentality of excusing our useless board for the moves they did because everything else is impossible.

    The Martinez and Diego moves is going to be the icon of Marotta's term, buy crap, buy high, sell low.



    So....wait, are you saying giving short passes is a great attribute? I think the only positive thing from his move is that his finishing is a bit better than Diego, but something as basic as giving short passes a plus? I would have rather brought someone from the Primavera to the first team than spend 5 million on a loan for this mediocre mid table player.
    One thing you keep missing out is the wages of the players you praise other clubs for signing, as if transfer fees are the only finances we have to take into consideration. Ibrahimovic is a free loan, because Barcelona wanted to get his 12M per season wages off their books, that is 60m for his entire contract. He's not free by any means. Van der Vaart's contract at Madrid was about 4m, at Spurs it is worth 2.7m a season, Martinez's is about half that.
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    Juventuz legend Alen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuveJay View Post
    One thing you keep missing out is the wages of the players.
    Most of the people find it hard to understand the importance of the wages and take the easier (and wrong) route in looking at things.

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    Biased JCK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    Most of the people find it hard to understand the importance of the wages and take the easier (and wrong) route in looking at things.
    Like bashing nationalities or singing mediocrity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    Most of the people find it hard to understand the importance of the wages and take the easier (and wrong) route in looking at things.
    we reduced our wages a lot which was a key, but losing the likes of trezeguet, zebina, camonaresi, tiago, poulsen were all smart moves due to age of what otehrs were offering. But the loss of some players vs the ones who came in and even if on loans, still paying some of these wages could suggest it is more detrimental to the team than beneficial.

    Who are our highest paid players this season/

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    Juventuz champion Rollie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
    we reduced our wages a lot which was a key, but losing the likes of trezeguet, zebina, camonaresi, tiago, poulsen were all smart moves due to age of what otehrs were offering. But the loss of some players vs the ones who came in and even if on loans, still paying some of these wages could suggest it is more detrimental to the team than beneficial.

    Who are our highest paid players this season/
    Gigi and Il Capitano. Drops off significantly from there, I think... maybe Aquilani after that?

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    Disciple of Gonzo Lo-Pan's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Boi View Post
    Quag, Rinaudo, Pepe, Aquilani & Motta have options. No option has been mentioned on Traore.



    I thinks the option is 18M
    So as for proper outright signings, regardless of the money been payed in annual installments, we have bonucci krasic and martinez? With only, for me, a question mark surrounding how useful the uruguayan can be. I am very happy to have krasic and Bonucci...

    And if quag, rinaudo, aquilani, motta and pepe prove shocking, we can simply send them home?

    looking at it that way, as long as taking into account the large intake of youngsters we have grabbed...such as Ilari and also the Camilleri lad...If we can't attract better presently, a loan opton seems good business on Marotta's part.

    Quag just needs to be solid, especially now that we are lacking a big chap up front until amarui or iaquinta gets fit. But del neri already said that he sees iaquinta more a support striker, getting down the flanks as well as playing off a target man...he is a fleet footed battering ram, and should be competing with amauri for that role, leave the support striker position to dp and quag. Unless Aquilani can be pushed up that far????

    My biggest concernsd are about Pepe. He seems lacking any true quality. Martinez and Lanzafame should fight it out for the left wing spot, and Krasic takes the right flank as his own. Pepe needs to be benched.

    Is melo strong enough for us to play him alongside aquilani and mop up/disrupt and destroy most the attacks through the middle???we desperately need creativity in the middle, and so much of our potential success this season, appears to rest at the feet of krasic and aquilani. Too much industry, not enough creativity on the pitch, cost us dearly last season...Both Lanza and Martinez have a hint of flair about them, Krasic needs games to get into top gear, aquilani and melo...that would be a wicked midfield. Big job for Melo...
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    Juventuz legend Alen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCK View Post
    Like bashing nationalities or singing mediocrity?
    I don't see the connection.

    Saying "We should have signed Zlatan for free instead of X for 10m eur" shows that the debater lacks basic knowledge how things work.

    When I bash the board for something, I do it after I look at things from different angles, still acknowledging that I might be wrong since I am not in their skin and I am not aware of all the details.

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    Biased JCK's Avatar

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    It's good that you admit that you might be wrong because we know how other bashers present their side of the story.

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    Juventuz champion pitbull's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicCB View Post
    I don't have time to respond to the whole thing right now, but I just wanted to note that Inter bought Sneijder for 15 million last year, while Van der Vaart cost around 10 million euro this year from Real Madrid. We could have bought Rafael instead of Martinez, while Milan got Ibra for free this year and a 24 million option so smart transfers are available, not to mention that if we had the money for Dzeko, we had the money for Benz. I just dislike this mentality of excusing our useless board for the moves they did because everything else is impossible.

    The Martinez and Diego moves is going to be the icon of Marotta's term, buy crap, buy high, sell low.
    Again, Martinez is from Uruguay, how on earth does that help you on "we prefer mediocre Italians over quality foreigners" argument? You're still not giving me any examples of those quality foreigners we could've afforded loaning or buying.

    How do you know we had money for Dzeko? Maybe we would've sold Chiellini (Marchisio, Melo, half of the squad, whatever) after that, just like we did with Krasič, selling Diego and bringing in Quag on loan in Diego's place. In our situation, all Del Neri has to do is to get us a CL place to call this a successful summer. We reduced wages, age, changed formation and spent 16m more than earned, but wages covers that with decent remainder.

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    Juventuz legend Alen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbull View Post
    We reduced wages
    Ah, thanks for reminding me

    Ok, I will try to see how much did we reduce the wages so I hope you guys will help me in the calculations.

    From the 25 men squad we had at the beginning of last year, we got rid of:
    1. Trezeguet 4.5m eur (with taxes 7.9m eur). We still pay 3m eur of his wages, but with the lower Spanish taxes that's 3.75m eur or 4.15m eur less than last year.
    2. Diego 3.8m eur (with taxes 6.6m eur)
    3. Poulsen 3.3m eur (with taxes 5.8m eur)
    4. Camoranesi 3m eur (with taxes 5.25m eur)
    5. Tiago 2.6m eur (with taxes 4.5m eur)
    6. Zebina 2.5m eur (with taxes 4.4m eur)
    7. Cannavaro 2.2m eur (with taxes 3.85m eur)
    8. Caceres 1.3m eur (with taxes 2.3m eur)
    9. Giovinco 1m eur (with taxes 1.75m eur)
    10. Molinaro 0.7m eur (with taxes 1.23m eur)
    11. Ariaudo 0.5m eur (with taxes 0.87m eur)

    In total, for these 11 players, we don't pay the 41.7m eur that we paid last year.
    --------------------
    Now the problem is to count the wages of the newcomers.
    For the loaned guys from serie A I am guessing that we are paying the wages they earned in the clubs from which we loaned them, right? Or no?
    If yes, then it's:
    1. Quagliarella 1.9m eur (with taxes 3.3m eur)
    2. Pepe 0.65m eur (with taxes 1.14m eur)
    3. Rinaudo 0.6m eur (with taxes 1.05m eur)
    4. Lanzafame 0.4m eur (with taxes 0.7m eur)
    5. Motta 0.33m eur (with taxes 0.58m eur)
    TOTAL= 6.77M EUR

    What about the wages of Traore, Storari, Bonucci, Krasic, Martinez and Aquilani? Anyone knows how much they get?

    Even if these 6 earn 2m eur on average or 3.5 with taxes, that's gonna be a total of around 27m eur, or almost 15m eur less than last year.

  11. #11
    The Evil Speculator Bjerknes's Avatar

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    Anybody have the official report of the wage structure?
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    Juventuz legend Alen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerknes View Post
    Anybody have the official report of the wage structure?
    I don't think something like that goes public.
    Usually in early September Gazzetta manages to find the info about the wages and publishes it. I guess we'll have to wait.

    This is from last year (click on the team for more info):
    http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/03-09-...02803300.shtml

  13. #13
    The Evil Speculator Bjerknes's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    I don't think something like that goes public.
    Usually in early September Gazzetta manages to find the info about the wages and publishes it. I guess we'll have to wait.

    This is from last year (click on the team for more info):
    http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/03-09-...02803300.shtml
    Hmm, I thought I saw something about player wages in the quarterly report before, but maybe it wasn't a complete breakdown.
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    Juventuz champion pitbull's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    Ah, thanks for reminding me

    Ok, I will try to see how much did we reduce the wages so I hope you guys will help me in the calculations.

    From the 25 men squad we had at the beginning of last year, we got rid of:
    1. Trezeguet 4.5m eur (with taxes 7.9m eur). We still pay 3m eur of his wages, but with the lower Spanish taxes that's 3.75m eur or 4.15m eur less than last year.
    2. Diego 3.8m eur (with taxes 6.6m eur)
    3. Poulsen 3.3m eur (with taxes 5.8m eur)
    4. Camoranesi 3m eur (with taxes 5.25m eur)
    5. Tiago 2.6m eur (with taxes 4.5m eur)
    6. Zebina 2.5m eur (with taxes 4.4m eur)
    7. Cannavaro 2.2m eur (with taxes 3.85m eur)
    8. Caceres 1.3m eur (with taxes 2.3m eur)
    9. Giovinco 1m eur (with taxes 1.75m eur)
    10. Molinaro 0.7m eur (with taxes 1.23m eur)
    11. Ariaudo 0.5m eur (with taxes 0.87m eur)

    In total, for these 11 players, we don't pay the 41.7m eur that we paid last year.
    --------------------
    Now the problem is to count the wages of the newcomers.
    For the loaned guys from serie A I am guessing that we are paying the wages they earned in the clubs from which we loaned them, right? Or no?
    If yes, then it's:
    1. Quagliarella 1.9m eur (with taxes 3.3m eur)
    2. Pepe 0.65m eur (with taxes 1.14m eur)
    3. Rinaudo 0.6m eur (with taxes 1.05m eur)
    4. Lanzafame 0.4m eur (with taxes 0.7m eur)
    5. Motta 0.33m eur (with taxes 0.58m eur)
    TOTAL= 6.77M EUR

    What about the wages of Traore, Storari, Bonucci, Krasic, Martinez and Aquilani? Anyone knows how much they get?

    Even if these 6 earn 2m eur on average or 3.5 with taxes, that's gonna be a total of around 27m eur, or almost 15m eur less than last year.
    This article states a different number on those going out - 52m euros. I read somewhere that Diego's wages this year were supposed to be bigger than last year, maybe it's also the case with other players. Or the fact that you calculated 43% tax made the difference, those asses on FI may be too lazy to do that, they probably chose the easy path with 50% tax

    Made a little research, the reports say Krasic will earn 2.5m, Aquilani earned 3.4 at Pool, Storari is on 1.2 m, Bonucci 2.0m. I can't find anything about Traore and Martinez though, don't have enough time.

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    Juventuz legend Alen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbull View Post
    This article states a different number on those going out - 52m euros. I read somewhere that Diego's wages this year were supposed to be bigger than last year, maybe it's also the case with other players. Or the fact that you calculated 43% tax made the difference, those asses on FI may be too lazy to do that, they probably chose the easy path with 50% tax

    Made a little research, the reports say Krasic will earn 2.5m, Aquilani earned 3.4 at Pool, Storari is on 1.2 m, Bonucci 2.0m. I can't find anything about Traore and Martinez though, don't have enough time.
    Brilliant and good enough.
    Thank you.

    When we summarize everything I think that we'll be on 0.

    The minus we made with the transfer fees was compensated with the lower wages we'll be paying. So in reality we changed most of our team and when you summarize all the expenses and profits, you will get a zero. Without losing a single euro we changed our team.

    Lets see how it works because many of the newcomers are simple loans.

    Still, one positive is that without making expenses we got rid of players we couldn't sell and replaced them with players we can make profit on if we sell them.

  16. #16
    Juventuz bench hudick's Avatar

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    @Alen.


    This year:

    Aquilani - 3,3m
    Krasić - 1,8m
    Motta - 0,9m
    Bonucci - 1,1m
    Martinez - 1,3m
    Storari - 1,2m
    Pepe - 1,2m
    Lanzafame - 0,5m
    Quagliarella - 1,8m
    Traore - 0,9m
    Rinaudo - 0,6m



    Last year:

    Trezeguet - 4,5m
    Diego - 3,8m
    Poulsen - 3,3m
    Camoranesi - 3m
    Tiago - 2,6m
    Zebina - 2,5m
    Cannavaro - 2,2m
    Caceres - 1,3m
    Giovinco - 1m
    Molinaro - 0,7m
    Chimenti - 0,5m
    Ariaudo - 0,5m
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  17. #17
    Juventuz legend Alen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudickk View Post
    @Alen.


    This year:

    Aquilani - 3,3m
    Krasić - 1,8m
    Motta - 0,9m
    Bonucci - 1,1m
    Martinez - 1,3m
    Storari - 1,2m
    Pepe - 1,2m
    Lanzafame - 0,5m
    Quagliarella - 1,8m
    Traore - 0,9m
    Rinaudo - 0,6m



    Last year:

    Trezeguet - 4,5m
    Diego - 3,8m
    Poulsen - 3,3m
    Camoranesi - 3m
    Tiago - 2,6m
    Zebina - 2,5m
    Cannavaro - 2,2m
    Caceres - 1,3m
    Giovinco - 1m
    Molinaro - 0,7m
    Chimenti - 0,5m
    Ariaudo - 0,5m
    I had last year's ones.
    Thanks a lot for this year's ones. Where did you find them?

    So lets calculate it:
    The new players: 14.6 m eur. This is 57% of the total. Adding the 43% tax it's 25.6m eur.

    The old players:: 25.9m eur. With the tax it's 45.4m eur. Since we're still paying 3.75m eur for Trez, it's ~42m eur.

    Some 16m eur difference.
    ---------------------------------------
    Now lets see purchases and sales:

    Players IN:
    - Bonucci 15.5m eur
    - Krasic 15m eur
    - Martinez 12m eur
    - Storari 4.5m eur
    - Quagliarella 4.5m eur loan
    - Pepe 2.6m eur loan
    - Motta 1.25m eur loan
    - Rinaudo 0.6m eur loan
    - Traore 0.5m eur loan
    TOTAL= 56.45M EUR

    Players OUT:
    - Diego 15.5m eur
    - Criscito 6m eur
    - Poulsen 5.475m eur
    - Molinaro 3.9m eur
    - Almiron 2.5m eur co-own
    - Ekdal 2.4m eur co-own
    - Mirante 1.5m eur
    - Ariaudo 1.3m eur co-own
    - Giovinco 1m eur loan
    - Tiago 0.5m eur loan
    - Cuneaz 0.4m eur
    - Maniero 0.25 co-own
    - Bamba 0.2m eur
    TOTAL= 40.5M EUR

    Difference= 15.95m eur

    Exactly the same as what we earned on the wages.
    So much equal that I feel that it's not just a coincidence

  18. #18
    اختك يا زمن JBF's Avatar

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    So we basically had no transfer campaign money? Where did that 80 million go?
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    Next season

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    I love how Marotta said that not qualifying for the CL wouldn't be a problem for the mercato as they would find other areas in which to save $.

    That tricky bastard



    So hopefully this means the club is saving funds for next season when CL qualification will make the club much more appealing to top players.

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