Israeli-Palestinian conflict - News and Politics - Juventuz Forums - Page 635

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  1. #12681
    Juventuz legend Fred's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgorTudor View Post
    Literally nothing in Israel's foundation was outside International Law, no matter how much pallywood apologists harp on about 'religious' motives of Zionists

    sad!

    btw, regarding Orgut's post: Total war is not genocide, my grandfather used to say
    Like I said earlier , I'm trying my hardest not to respond in this thread, but every now and then, something itches my curiosity so hard I can't resist.

    So, invading a certain land, forcing its inhabitants out of it, and establishing a country on that said land does not violate any sort of international law?
    for every action there is a reaction equal in magnitude and opposite in direction

  2. #12682
    In bocca al lupo, Fabio. Seven's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomice View Post
    How would you choose between the life of a family member and a random person for the sake of argument? you know they are worth the same but are they really equal to you personally? even if it's a clear choice there is a price to pay, and we do pay it as a society (not comparing sufferings before anyone is triggered).I know it may sound very unpleasant to some ears, and you are free judge always but I think any palestinian (or anyone else) if he is honest will say the same. And I would think it's only fair, nature of men and conflict. Again I think having to make the choice at all is a horrible mistake in itself.
    I understand that sentiment. It's only natural to look after your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomice View Post
    To your second part i'm not sure I'm following, rights from who and obligation to who? If you are referring to palestinians having the same universal rights as everyone else, they absolutely should. Is israel hampering those rights? yes, absolutely it does, but so does their own government and society, in general not many arabs enjoy many of those rights anyway so it is what it is. I mean just look at the rights of palestinians in other muslim countries, even 3rd or 4th generation. No one likes to talk about it because it's inconvenient to the argument but the examples are endless.

    If you meant rights in another context then please elaborate, I'm not clear on the obligations part as well
    No, I meant universal rights. Such as the right to property. Because it is clear that Israel is violating those rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerknes View Post
    Do you really think Trump is an idiot?

    He's a businessman. What's to say he wouldn't make the right choice when in office? He's not kept abreast of military intelligence in the Middle East because he doesn't have access to it and perhaps doesn't have the time to be. But that's not to say he wouldn't make an astute decision when he has all the facts in front of him.

  3. #12683
    Juventuz regular Tomice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    I understand that sentiment. It's only natural to look after your own.



    No, I meant universal rights. Such as the right to property. Because it is clear that Israel is violating those rights.
    Yeah, don't think anyone can or is trying to deny that, it wouldn't stop until we make a deal unfortunately, especially with the current right wing government. I think both sides want a just peace, we just disagree on what is just.

    Just out of curiosity you mean right to property regarding the west bank settlements, home demolitions and stuff or the 48 refugees property as well? because honestly I'm not sure I agree with the second part

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    So, invading a certain land, forcing its inhabitants out of it, and establishing a country on that said land does not violate any sort of international law?
    Well no.

    Unless you think it's fair to retroactively apply international law, talking about can of worms

    Applying modern moral standards retroactively isn't cool as well btw

  4. #12684
    Juventuz legend Fred's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomice View Post
    Yeah, don't think anyone can or is trying to deny that, it wouldn't stop until we make a deal unfortunately, especially with the current right wing government. I think both sides want a just peace, we just disagree on what is just.

    Just out of curiosity you mean right to property regarding the west bank settlements, home demolitions and stuff or the 48 refugees property as well? because honestly I'm not sure I agree with the second part

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well no.

    Unless you think it's fair to retroactively apply international law, talking about can of worms

    Applying modern moral standards retroactively isn't cool as well btw
    It isn't, and of course its not practical or realistic to suggest doing that anyway. But look at what Igor said, he said "nothing in Israel's formation was outside international law"
    for every action there is a reaction equal in magnitude and opposite in direction

  5. #12685
    In bocca al lupo, Fabio. Seven's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomice View Post

    Well no.

    Unless you think it's fair to retroactively apply international law, talking about can of worms

    Applying modern moral standards retroactively isn't cool as well btw

    Much of codified international law is based on customary international law. I'm sure most would agree that invading land and forcing the original inhabitants out would be a violation of customary international law too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerknes View Post
    Do you really think Trump is an idiot?

    He's a businessman. What's to say he wouldn't make the right choice when in office? He's not kept abreast of military intelligence in the Middle East because he doesn't have access to it and perhaps doesn't have the time to be. But that's not to say he wouldn't make an astute decision when he has all the facts in front of him.

  6. #12686
    Juventuz regular Tomice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    It isn't, and of course its not practical or realistic to suggest doing that anyway. But look at what Igor said, he said "nothing in Israel's formation was outside international law"
    Not sure I'm following, I agree with what Igor said, again strictly regarding the formation itself of the country. If international law is dictated by league of nation, UN whatever, and the same body recognize the formation as legal how can one claim it was not?

    Sincerely I might just be missing your point

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Much of codified international law is based on customary international law. I'm sure most would agree that invading land and forcing the original inhabitants out would be a violation of customary international law too.
    There is customary law which is not clearly defined and then there's the written law, can anyone say what was the customary law regarding "invading land" was prior to 48 or today even? if it's unconditionally against it then almost every country in history is at fault

    It's exactly the point I was making regarding applying moral standards retroactively. Costumery is moral based and therefore subject to constant change, especially since it's not written.

    Also I believe customary law is region based but correct me if i'm wrong

    - - - Updated - - -

    And if we are discussing laws, why both of you are using the term "invading" when it's not technically accurate? in this context at least where technicality is important to determine violation of law.

    Not that it's a particular dissuasion I'm looking forward to get into but just had to say it.

  7. #12687
    King of Chlamydia Maddy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomice View Post
    Not sure I'm following, I agree with what Igor said, again strictly regarding the formation itself of the country. If international law is dictated by league of nation, UN whatever, and the same body recognize the formation as legal how can one claim it was not?
    Yeah, shouldn't waste ones tiem discussing whether or not Israel in it's birth broke international law; rather discuss how they are breaking international law as we speak.
    Much Love, bitches!

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