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  1. #61
    Jinx Minx AngelaL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    inter



    Quote Originally Posted by Shyne View Post
    For those who believe we are guilty, can u please state which games were proven to have been "fixed".

    Also, if you actually find these mystery games, can u explain how the ref's of those games involved were innocent?

    If u cant answer those questions, u have no right to criticize Juventus.

    Reading this thread, all I see, aside from gsol, are ppl making personal claims and claiming they're factual. Unless u can cite your claims with official documents, you're wrong. Take away the sensationalist media, and u would have nothing to back you up.
    That was what Isha00(Elisa) was good at. She translated a lot of stuff and gave references to back up her points including those re Calciopoli.

    EEEuuuuuuu! What's that smell?

    Oh! I found the source in your quotes (He's on my ignore list): -

    Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti
    There's one massive, and with massive I mean M A S S I V E, flaw in that "impartial" write-up of yours. Seeing as I'm a nice bloke, I'll show you the way....
    Him! Nice? Seriously delusional more like! Someone call the funny farm and inform them they have an escapee and he's trolling in our forum....

    ....or better still just exterminate him!
    Juventina sono io - sempre!
    Chi non salta nerrazzurro è!
    Rest In Peace Riccardo Neri & Alessio Ferramosca

  2. #62
    The Evil Speculator Bjerknes's Avatar

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    Look, there is absolutely no shot in hell that Juventus and Moggi were completed innocent before this whole ordeal. Moreover, as denco stated it's frankly impossible for a club like Inter to concoct a whole scandal such as this with no prior evidence or anything to stand upon. There must have been something worth noting to jump start the legal action against us. And that was the phone calls plus probably something else.

    So once you have a little something in Italy, you potentially have a lot of something, which some entities in Italian football perhaps exploited for their gain. If you dig a 10 foot hole, maybe you'll find 5 bodies. If you dig a 20 foot hole, you might find 40. If you dig a 30 foot hole, you might not find anymore bodies but you could certainly throw some remnants of others down in the mix.
    Ogbonna 2016

    15M in Hope and Change

  3. #63
    In bocca al lupo, Fabio. Seven's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsol View Post
    That was the exact charge.

    "Articolo 6" was the charge which is influencing the standings and results by illicit means
    Yes. Influencing, not fixing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerknes View Post
    Do you really think Trump is an idiot?

    He's a businessman. What's to say he wouldn't make the right choice when in office? He's not kept abreast of military intelligence in the Middle East because he doesn't have access to it and perhaps doesn't have the time to be. But that's not to say he wouldn't make an astute decision when he has all the facts in front of him.

  4. #64
    In bocca al lupo, Fabio. Seven's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    some fans against his club when club need them more than anytime

    I mean denco.he is talking like galliani's lawyer.He wants to prove our guilty clearly.
    You great, great man. We back behind club must pull! We become BIG, BIGGER, BIGGEST! INTER DIES!! INTER DIES!!!! INTER DIEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerknes View Post
    Do you really think Trump is an idiot?

    He's a businessman. What's to say he wouldn't make the right choice when in office? He's not kept abreast of military intelligence in the Middle East because he doesn't have access to it and perhaps doesn't have the time to be. But that's not to say he wouldn't make an astute decision when he has all the facts in front of him.

  5. #65
    Primavera player Vimto's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti View Post
    There's one massive, and with massive I mean M A S S I V E, flaw in that "impartial" write-up of yours. Seeing as I'm a nice bloke, I'll show you the way.

    Look son, you provided more than one "piece of evidence" that Milan were heavily involved in Calciopoli. Fine, let's assume they were indeed. If so, how come Inter, the big bad boys, the masterminds behind everything sinister, the perpetrators of 9/11 and Tsunami, didn't inflict punishment on Milan like they did with poor hapless Juventus?
    This is the lamest thing I have heard today
    you should know they work together here a link: http://www.figc.it/italiano/struttur..._dir_centr.htm wow! Moratti and Galliani working together, now it's seen obvious eh.

    INTER

    Where do I start? I’ll keep this as brief and to the point as I can. Yes Facchetti was caught on tape calling the same designers Moggi contacted. Bergamo (referee designer) himself on televised interviews admitted that no one called him more (or dined at his home more) than the late Inter president Facchetti (http://youtube.com/watch?v=tl9N0vxjM...lated&search=). This type of conduct is no better and no worse than Moggi’s contact with Bergamo. At most this is an article 1 violation because of the nature of the calls. This however, is only the beginning. Soon Calciopoli the very secretive Spiopoli or Intercettopli began. This is where we all found out who where the famous wire taps came from. What was discovered was that two police officers (with criminal charges pending including evidence and wire tap tampering) were in charge of handling all intercepted calls once recorded in order to pass them onto the prosecution. The police officers names are Giovanni Arcangioli and Attilio Auricchio and their scandalous past is well documented in an article of “La Repubblica” on the 25th of February 2006. These officers were being handed these intercepts by another officer, an investigator by the name of Adamo Bove. Adamo was heading the intercept project and had set up shop at Telecom (chief Inter sponsor Tronchetti Provera’s company). Who was the work commissioned for? One of Telecom’s board of directors…Massimo Moratti.

    Bove’s secretary, Caterina Plateo eventually confessed that after a meeting to which all previously mentioned names and Luca Cordero Montezemolo (Ferrari President and FIAT board member) that strange instructions were passed on to all working on the project. The instructions were to manipulate or eliminate various intercepts and to flag certain phones so that they would be warned the moment they were intercepted just in case they would ever be placed under surveillance either by accident, by others, or by means of who they were communicating with (i.e. if Facchetti called Galliani and Galliani’s phone was tapped Facchetti would receive a message instantly). These confessions and those of Fabio Ghioni (former head of Telecom Security and Bove Partner) were publicized on the 31st of August 2006. On the 10th of July the two were interrogated in court…on July 21st 2006 Adamo Bove committed suicide. When Moratti was asked if he commissioned the surveillance he responded “Yes I did…no wait…maybe…I’m not sure” (Mandiamo la Juve in B: Calciopoli o Fasopoli Antonello Oggiano). The interviewer was Claudio Sabelli Fioretti and the publication was in the Corriere della Sera on the 31st of August 2006. These charges have been compounded by the fact that the intercepts were then sold illegally to the Gazzetta dello Sport by way of the newspaper’s President Carlo Buora (Inter Vice President).

    Moratti is on trial for this as well as the fraudulent accounting charges but one of the prosecutors selected by the Federcalcio (of which Moratti is the Vice President???????) is Marco Stefanini. Acting lawyer of Spezia Calcio soccer team that Moratti owns 40% of…so much like Recoba’s fake passport and Kallon’s steroid use, nothing will happen because he is being prosecuted by a partner.

    Furthermore Bove’s family have launched an investigation into the death of their son. Foul play has not been ruled out but nothing proving anything but suicide has surfaced yet (I’m following that one closely).

    These are not Serie B punisgable offences. They are federal infringements on constitutional rights and public accounting. Delegates could and should be jailed but they won’t. the team could be appropriated by the state too, but it won’t. Welcome to Italy.

    Referring back to Montezemolo, he is part of the FIAT management that had been butting heads publically with former Juventus management. His connection to Telecom is rather sketchy. To make things worse, after Juventus retracted their appeal at the Regional Administrative Court (TAR) the FIGC publically thanked Luca Cordero Montezemolo. Sound funny? That appeal not only would have cleared Juventus according to Antonio Baldassarre (ex President of the Constitutional Court in an article published on the 4th of October 2006 in Tuttosport) but it would have wrecked the system that governs soccer in Italy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti View Post
    Afterall, if Inter were running everything from A-Z they would've absolutely attempted to destory Milan as well, especially with all this "evidence" on show. If relegating juventus based on hearsay was a piece of cake I'm sure wouldn't it have been that hard to eliminate Milan as well. But instead all Moratti could do is deduct a measly 8 points off 'em, inspite of all the EVIDENCE!! you displayed. So much for him being a criminal genius!


    MILAN

    Milan’s involvement in the scandal is more defensive than offensive. You have to understand Milan’s pull in various aspects. Berlusconi is the owner of the team and also head of one of Italy’s biggest and most powerful political parties (Forza Italia). He also owns Mediaset, and a variety of other media channels via TV, satellite, and press. In addition Milan’s former president (Franco Carraro) at the time of the scandal was sitting in the presidency of the FIGC. Milan’s Vice President happened to be the President of “La Lega” (League of Directors). Milan also had their best buddy (still to this day) working as president of AIA (Italian Referee Association). The man’s name is Tulio Lanese but is known in his inner circle as “mi-Lanese”. I’ll come back to this in the end. I won’t even bother to get into their Mob ties…it just gets too long. Just know that I have names and criminal records of various mobsters that have sat as directors in both Milan and Forza Italia. Berlusconi has himself faced (and evaded) charges.

    Milan was the only team to employ a “Referee Public Relations Minister” by
    the name of Leonardo Meani. His entire job revolved around keeping a good rapport with the referees in the league. We have wire taps where he yells at Copelli (linesmen) instructing him that “when Milan is on the field you keep your flags down unless you are on the other side of the field” he went on to say “altrimenti vi spacchiamo la testa” (otherwise we’ll crack your head open). Coincidentally it was Copelli working the game where Juventus were denied a clear as day penalty against (sorry) Reggina. There were many other examples of clear article 6 violations punishable by automatic serie b sentencing (one of which I’ll send you) where Meani organizes a secret meeting in his restaurant (on a day the restaurant was closed) between Collina (the other voice on the recording) and Galliani. This clearly violates all rules and is far worse than the recordings regarding Moggi (where you’ll never hear him speaking to referees or linesmen nor requesting any specifically). There are plenty of tapes where Meani demands certain referees and then reports his success to Galliani.

    Milan were caught red handed with more violations than any other accused team. Considering this was their second scandal regarding match fixing (Calcioscomesse 1980) the Serie B punishment would no longer apply. Serie C2 would have been nearly impossible to avoid. So the Miln machine began pulling strings. First their media portals began reporting excessively blaming Moggi and Juve for everything possible and would consistently bombard newscasts with accusations, declarations of innocence, and believe it or not demands for the two scudetti they lost to Juventus. Meanwhile Berlusconi, Galliani and Mediaset (venue by which TV rights are sold in a quasi legal fashion to teams permitting or denying ad revenue to those teams) began their threats. If Galliani and Milan were prosecuted for article 6 violations no TV rights would be sold in Italy and no UEFA coverage would be possible in Italy. You’d be surprised how much pull the Milan media machine has in Europe. Just look at what they’ve gotten away with in Europe. Against Juventus in the final of 2003 Dida (with a phony passport) came off his line for every penalty (Nedved forbidden to play), against Inter in the quarters Schevchenko landed a stiff headbutt on Materazzi (big shock) that no one saw, then Inter scored but it didn’t count…no one knows why. Just this year Milan not only were permitted to play but were even permitted to win after Inzaghi scored a goal with his arm. Who knows, maybe had Milan not threatened to renegotiate all their contracts for television rights just days prior to the CAF sentences things would have been different. Maybe if Milan hadn’t frozen their payments and transactions between Mediaset and the leagues just 4 days prior to the sentencing this would have been even more different (Corriere.it 10th July 2006).

    What all this means is that Milan’s involvement was by far the most abundant and most illegal but their activity after the scandal was more an act of self preservation than a “let’s kill Juve” attempt. Indirectly however they painted a convincingly brutal portrait of Juventus and Moggi which helped condition the judges and public opinion throughout the case. During the proceedings Galliani met publically (though behind closed doors) with Borelli (head of the Federcalcio Sports Tribunal). Days later the argument was made that Meani acted independently of Milan and Galliani (though wie taps tell a different story) and as a result the charge was altered from article 6 violations to article 1 violations. Result…Milan stayed in Serie A and the CL while Juve plummeted to Serie B.

    I said earlier that I’d get back to the Meani-Galliani-Collina meeting. Here’s the icing on the cake. The same Collina on the wire tap,the same Collina that awarded a fictitious penalty to Milan in the 2003 Supercup against Juventus, the same Collina that cost Juventus the 2000 scudetto on the last day, the same Collina that was sponsored by OPEL when Milan too wassponsored by them, the same Collina that Milan requested against Juventus in season’s past on public forums like TV and newspapers, has just been named Referee Designer for Serie A and B.


    Quote Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti View Post
    Yeah, time to re-think that book thinggy. Or may be you should go ahead and do it, but don't forget to include Cesare Zaccone's statements. You know who Zaccone is right? Juve's chief ATTORNEY. Oh wait, could he possibly be yet another Inter ally? Does his daughter in law work for Telecom? Perhaps Capobianco's confessions would also add the necessary element of excitement to your book. Probably Nucini's too. Hell may be you should go as far as adding the glaring fact that every (ok, most.) juventino chooses to ignore: Both Moggi and Giraudo being tossed out like dogs even before the verdict was announced. Juventus didn't defend them, I wonder why...eventhough they've been at the club for ages. Note how none of the other implicated clubs made changes to their management (unlike Juventus), note how all the implicated clubs maintained innocence while Juventus seeked Serie B without penalization. Why would a totally 'clean' club accept their fate so easily? Why would Cobolli come out and say that this is a new clean and transparent Juventus?
    The Inside job

    There are two sides to the Agnelli family. There is Andrea Agnelli (who loved the triade) and the Elkan side (that loves Montezemolo). The Elkan side wanted to assume total control of FIAT operations (including sport) and for this reason there was an internal struggle at Juventus for the last 5 years or so. I remember reading about it when I lived there so it was a while back. We all knew the Agnelli’s were no longer supporting Juventus financially because they didn’t hide it at all.

    To assume control the Elkan side needed to get rid of Moggi and Giraudo because they had control of the team’s business affairs. Not only that, but the Triade was loved by the fans and had a secure position within Juventus’ shareholders. Not to mention that if they fired the Triade they would just wind up working for Inter or Milan…I’m sure you remember both teams trying to recruit them, (Galliani admitted it and Moggi went on TV with the written contract signed by Moratti and later Moggi obviously refused). They needed Moggi and Giraudo out of soccer all together. That meant they needed them suspended.

    Proof 1)
    In the weeks prior to the scandal, the Milan Stock Exchange registered 4 times the average transactions of Juventus’ shares. After the Italian Revenue Agency (Guardia di Finanza) concluded their investigations they noted that Special Shares were sold to hand picked (new) shareholders. These new shareholders increased the number of voters on Juventus’ shareholders panel and as a result reduced the voting power of the two biggest (individual) shareholders which were Antonio Giraudo and Luciano Moggi. This ensured that if the two refused to step down, the shareholders on the Elkan side (now outnumbering the Andrea Agnelli side) could easily vote out Moggi and Giraudo. The two didn’t even put up a fight and decided to resign rather than be humiliated further after being voted out.

    Proof 2)
    FIAT and its holding company IFIL did not defend Giraudo and Moggi who had to find their own lawyers. To “defend” Juventus they used FIAT lawyer Zaccone who did pretty much nothing. He was quoted numerous times stating that things “could have gone worse (Serie C) given the evidence” (speech at the Juventus Shareholders Assembly on October 26th 2006). Now that we have the evidence and questioned him on what could have sent Juventus to Serie C, he has opted to remain silent. Zaccone only woke up and defended Juventus after the other squads had their sentence reduced and were all in Serie A (one even in he CL) except Juventus. At that point Juventus decided to appeal to the Civil Court of Lazio (TAR Appeal which I can provide for anyone interested). It seemed almost as if they (Elkan group) had been betrayed by the court. Maybe Serie B with 30 points (and then 17) was not what they had agreed to. The TAR appeal was created with a fury and deposited in court. On the 31st of August Zaccone retreated and withdrew the Appeal. Weeks later Juventus’ sentence was reduced to Serie B with -9 points. No further action was ever taken. In an interview in Tuttisport on the 4th of October former Constitutional Court President Antonio Baldassarre claimed “had Juventus proceeded with their appeal in civil court, they would have likely won and as a result crushed the system that currently controls soccer in our country.” So why did they withdraw hours before standing trial?

    Proof 3)
    Zaccone and Cobolli Gigli stated that the pressure of the public blame that would result due to the Italian tournaments being suspended by FIFA & UEFA (including Euro qualifiers) as a result of their appeal forced certain upper management figures to change their minds at Juventus and FIAT. Who though? Who put pressure on Zaccone and Gigli (who had finally woken up) to withdraw? Sports Minister Melandri may have answered that question for us after publically thanking Luca Cordero di Montezemolo (Elkan’s right arm) after Juventus’ withdrawal from the Civil Courts. Montezemolo is a FIAT Director and more importantly the President of Ferrari SpA. During the Calciopoli trial a woman by the name of Caterina Platea (who worked with the wire transcripts under Investigator Adamo Bove) confessed not only to manipulating and destroying wire transcripts for Bove (who committed suicide two weeks after the confession) also made another shocking revelation. Montezemolo was frequently at Telecom Italia where she was intercepting calls. She admitted to seeing him coming out of the offices of Tronchetti Provera and Massimo Moratti. Why would they be meeting? We got the motive recently when Telecom Italia sponsored Ferrari SpA for millions of Euros, the same Telecom Italia that spied on Juventus and is owned by Tronchetti (also owner of Inter’s biggest sponsor Pirelli tires and the FIGC/Lega’s biggest sponsor TIM).

    Fact: All Juventus personnel are now part of the Elkan side of the Agnelli family (note Tardelli and Bettega of the Triade side were let go or didn’t have their contracts renewed).
    - Secco (IFIL Director)
    - Cobolli Gigli (former FIAT Manager)
    - Blanc (IFIL Director)

    A popular theory amongst Juventini is that FIAT intend on offloading Juventus and cashing in on the sale of the team now that they own more than 60% of the team’s shares and control the team entirely. It is expected that if Juventus qualify for the Champion’s League that the team will be put to market. One of the bigger signs was the Elkan family’s 104.5 million Euro investment into the team which should have gone to player signings and salaries. It was instead used to pay off debts that resulted from their relegation (75 million) and finance the stadium that Juventus own (Delle Alpi for 20 million). Very little (less than 10 million) was used to purchase players. Most player signings this year were actually paid for with the sales of prior and current players. The decision is logical. After all, it’s easier to sell a team with fewer quality players and good books than a team with stars on the bench and debts in the bank with a busted stadium to fix. If sold FIAT could finally focus on and invest greatly in the team that has always been their priority…Ferrari. One team was sacrificed (and is still being sacrificed) for the other.

    We may not have all the answers yet…but what we do know points in the direction of an inside job, a betrayal, and a compromise between the Telecom Teamsters (Moratti-Tronchetti-Rossi) and the FIAT bosses (Elkan-Montezemolo).


    Quote Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti View Post
    P.S. Here's a nice article though, from a proper writer not some wannabe who must be spot on because he...speaks fluent ITALIAN!!!!. Wow, you must feel really proud.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...icle718222.ece
    this guy Gabriele Marcotti is a Gazetta reader, the lamest newspaper of Italy.

  6. #66
    The Fascist salman's Avatar

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    I think this is like the 12391209381029381902th time that the 'Inside Story' has been posted in the last 5 days.
    Helter Skelter

  7. #67
    Juventino

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    Quote Originally Posted by salman View Post
    I think this is like the 12391209381029381902th time that the 'Inside Story' has been posted in the last 5 days.
    some people need to read it 12391209381029381902th time in 5 days to understand it
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  8. #68
    Pinturicchio Azzurri7's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    You great, great man. We back behind club must pull! We become BIG, BIGGER, BIGGEST! INTER DIES!! INTER DIES!!!! INTER DIEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!
    You're not funny....incase you're trying to be.
    Asif mon bebe..
    Quote Originally Posted by C.Martin View Post
    For 3 years I have wondered why my friends kept calling Allegri for Augustus. I couldn't sleep at nights thinking about it. I've been sitting at my desk for hours every week trying to figure it out, coming up with calculations and formulas that weren't correct. Then it hit me, the answer was right in front me all time but I didn't notice it. Augustus was the greatest emperor of the Roman Empire, owning almost all of europe. People loved him. People feared him. It's the same with Allegri, although we know him better as Euromaxx. Allegri, greatest coach in the world at the moment, people love him. People fear him. We need to understand that. Allegri 4 life

    And why my female friend keep calling Allegri for Peter North I dont need to figure out.

    290, 290, 290, 290, 290... +24
    Honor, Sacrifice, Loyalty

  9. #69
    Juventino

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    should I respond
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  10. #70
    Pinturicchio Azzurri7's Avatar

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    I say not worth it.
    Asif mon bebe..
    Quote Originally Posted by C.Martin View Post
    For 3 years I have wondered why my friends kept calling Allegri for Augustus. I couldn't sleep at nights thinking about it. I've been sitting at my desk for hours every week trying to figure it out, coming up with calculations and formulas that weren't correct. Then it hit me, the answer was right in front me all time but I didn't notice it. Augustus was the greatest emperor of the Roman Empire, owning almost all of europe. People loved him. People feared him. It's the same with Allegri, although we know him better as Euromaxx. Allegri, greatest coach in the world at the moment, people love him. People fear him. We need to understand that. Allegri 4 life

    And why my female friend keep calling Allegri for Peter North I dont need to figure out.

    290, 290, 290, 290, 290... +24
    Honor, Sacrifice, Loyalty

  11. #71
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    I realize reading these posts how much I learned. A year ago I sounded like these guys too. I don't write here to try and look smart or other's dumb but because I doubt too many english speakers have researched this to the depth that I have.

    I don't want to quote everyone so I'll just respond generally.

    I have the sentences of the drug charges as well that state not guilty

    I have the wiretaps for whoever wants to hear them, email farsopoli@hotmail.com.

    Galliani and Moratti are co-workers as shown on this link...not to mention Milan control TV rights for soccer in the nation and used that to remain in the CL. http://www.figc.it/italiano/struttur..._dir_centr.htm


    Zaccone? you still think he pled guilty and requested Serie B don't you? Read the trial documents. There is no such thing. Read the inside story

    Key Questions to ask:

    - Out of the whole scandal one referee was suspended for foul play (De Santis) for Lecce-Parma. The game had nothing to do with Juventus and the sentence clearly states that as well (actually absolves Moggi).

    - Both referee designers (Pairetto and Bergamo now retired) were absolved of any wrong doing.

    - No players were convicted of throwing matches.

    If Moggi was influencing games, Why were no referees, linesmen, referee designers, or players convicted with Moggi and Giraudo?

    Is it possible that Moggi could influence matches all by himself?

    Lastly make note of the fact that financial investigations proved no transfers between Juventus or its directors and the referees/designers and that in over 100,000 phone calls no evidence of match fixing could be found as noted by the sentence itself and the investigators/judges like Magistrate Marcello Maddalena, Judge Cesare Ruperto, Judge Piero Sandulli, and Judge Mario Serio.

    Curious little point that proves that the sentence was pre-written is that the Gazzetta dello Sport announced the sentences 3 days before the courts released them to the public in a press conference. Lucky guess?

    Its easy to accept Moggi's guilt because it's what we've been told to think. Taking a step back and looking at the facts tells another story though.

    I'm still waiting for one person to state what game Juve "influenced" and how.

    It's easier to dismiss evidence than to acknowledge it sometimes

  12. #72
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    As far is Collina is concerned, you have to be open minded and I’ll give an honest summary.

    That season I was living in Italy and I’m not sure how well you know the country but I am Italian. I have lived there, I studied there, was married there and still have family there. You might not like what I have to say but you have to take it intelligently and understand that I always try to be as objective as possible. I have been the first to comment against Juventus on occasions where they benefitted from a referee error but I will warn you. For every occasion that Juventus gets away with a referee screw up I can and will bring up an occasion where Milan gets away with the same thing. How do I know these things? I’ve been following Serie A religiously for years and have been researching for a long time. I actually plan on writing a book about Calciopoli. The non Italian speaking public is really clueless about the case. It’s not your fault, but very little was ever translated regarding the case.

    As far as that game (Milan-Juventus) is concerned I want you to understand that a penalty isn’t a penalty just because you think it should be. With hand balls there is always the question of intent. Was it ball to hand or hand to ball? Shirt pulling? Come one, every defender does it in every game and few penalties are ever called. The truth about that game is that it was simply too important. It was a decisive game between two title contenders towards the end of the season. I am certain that Collina was instructed to just let them play. This is why Collina called almost nothing the whole game. If you watched the game again I’m sure you saw Inzaghi take a swing at Thuram. Did Collina call the automatic red card? No, he just let them play. The truth is that no one wants such an important game being decided by a debatable penalty or card.

    That season Milan were awarded the most penalties and faced the least. They were given 6 minutes of injury time against Lecce when 3 would have been more than enough (they scored in the last minute). They played Livorno to a tie thanks to an onside Livorno goal that was called back wrongfully. The problem is that when Del Piero scores an offside goal against Udinese (notice I can admit it) the papers and TV shows talk about it for weeks. When Cafu slide tackles Cufre cleats up and Cufre has to leave the field with a bloody leg no one hears or reads about it and then it’s forgotten. I’ll get to the reason later.

    The previous year Milan won the Scudetto and the deciding game was against second place Roma. There was a penalty for Roma (handball) that the referee (Messina) didn’t give. No one knows, because no one spoke of it afterwards. I seriously have a million examples. I will only give you one more regarding Milan and Collina for now.

    In August of 2003 Juventus and Milan were in the USA doing a tour. As a result they decided to play the Super Cup in Giants Stadium New York (actually New Jersey). I went with 7 friends from Canada. We the Juve fans sat behind the net and saw Collina award a penalty to Milan in the dying seconds of extra time. It was a Shevchenko dive that was placed on the big screen right away. It was clear that no contact was made. Milan (Pirlo) scored. Obviously after the celebration we were well into injury time but twenty seconds later Juventus (Trezeguet) tied the game at one and Juventus eventually won in a penalty shoot out. Did anyone talk about Collina’s penalty? No, actually he was accused of favoring Juventus because he allowed injury time in extra time (I’ve seen that done in every tournament since then). Apparently people didn’t know that it was mandatory since there was a penalty shot. He gave a minute of injury time and Juve scored within 20 seconds. There is a trend there that I want you to understand. He in no way favored Juventus but by accusing him of it, people seemed to forget all about that stupid penalty he gave Milan.

    This is the point…Milan control almost everything. This is hard to digest for most Milan fans but the majority of soccer in Italy is in Milan’s hands. When teams like Juventus win Scudetti it’s against the odds. Milan is owned by a company called Fininvest which is owned by Silvio Berlusconi (leader of Italy’s biggest political party called Forza Italia and was Prime Minister of Italy during from Mid 90’s to 2006). Fininvest is a communications company which owns 7 of 9 or 10 Italian television stations through another company called Mediaset, it also owns all satellite television in Italy. It has the exclusive rights to televising games in Serie A and B (and UEFA games in Italy). Televised games are the single biggest means of income for any soccer team in Italy because it brings ad revenue. This is actually more lucrative than team jersey sponsorship or ticket sales and Milan decides who gets what. The President of Mediaset is Adriano Galliani (Vice President of Milan) and during Calciopoli was also the League President. This means every team in Italy has to kiss Milan’s ass or else…no ad revenue. When Calciopoli should have sent Milan to Serie B (they had the worst evidence against them and I’ve got it), Mediaset threatened to not televise Serie A and furthermore they threatened to renegotiate television terms for all soccer in Italy (UEFA included) a day prior to the sentencing. People think they stayed in the Champions League because they did the least but it was pure blackmail. Italy couldn’t survive financially for a year if no Serie A would be televised and UEFA didn’t want to lose one of its biggest markets for a whole year.
    Since Milan essentially control television in Italy, nearly all soccer related programs revolve around Milan and trash their rivals. Inter responded with a station called LA7 which is owned by Tronchetti (Inter’s biggest sponsor through his ownership of Pirelli) but no station exists defending Juventus. When an episode like Del Piero’s offside goal against Udinese occurs, it would get talked about for weeks on these stations using replays, freeze frame, expert analysis, etc. creating an opinion of Juventus that they were cheating but when Inzaghi would score a goal with his arm to win the Champions League no one said a word…they just showed the celebrations over an over and over again. This is the power of suggestion that Milan has used on the public for almost 25 years. In the end, whatever country you come from will receive its soccer feed through this Milan based station and all teams have to negotiate their price with Milan in order to get their games on the air. Anywhere else this would be a conflict of interest.

    Before you mentioned Collina and referred to him as Italy’s best referee. Can I ask you why he was so good? Who ranked him and based on what? Did he make no mistakes? Didn’t his errors cost teams games and points? You yourself complained about him and so did I. A big Collina blunder cost Juventus the Scudetto in 2000 on the last day of the season against Peruggia (Lazio won the league on the last day). Against Inter in the 2002-2003 season, Collina allowed Inter to tie a game against Juventus when a pile up of players covered Buffon (http://youtube.com/watch?v=TYPkBRxnPAU). Collina’s history is sprinkled with errors and controversy but the 6 o’clock news and all of the panels of experts in Italy never discuss it. Truth is; it was the same TV stations that Milan own that tagged Collina as Italy’s best. Week in and week out they would call him the best. He was finally officially ranked #1 by AIA President (AIA is the Italian Referee Association Associazione Italiana Arbitrale) Tulio Lanese. Tulio is so close to Galliani and Berlusconi that he is referred to by them as Tulio “mi-Lanese” according to Galliani. He was accepted as Italy’s #1 referee by the FIGC thanks to President Franco Carraro (Ex-Milan President and close friend of Galliani). Why all this pro-Collina sentiment? Simple, first of all he is an Anti-Juventino. There is even a website called odiocollina.com (I hate Collina) made by Juventus fans because of how much he has cost the team, but more importantly Collina was sponsored by the same company that sponsors A.C. Milan…OPEL.

    This sponsorship is actually illegal in Italy because it represents a conflict of interest. His case was under investigation but when Silvio Berlusconi became Prime Minister of Italy he changed a law that automatically closed and archived cases that were 10 years old. He modified it to 5 years and as a result the case against Milan and Collina wound up closed and never resolved. Some other Milan cases were closed too as a result of the new law like the fixing of their 1988 scudetto through the Neapolitan Mafia called the Camorra and various fraudulent accounting charges as well. He has since modified the rule down to 2 years.

    I could go on for pages and pages but I want to stick to Collina-Milan. Afterwards I will list some topics we can discuss later and if you wish to proceed I’ll be happy not only to summarize these things but to send you the actual references used to find these facts (newspaper articles that can be found in online archives, legal documents, wire taps, judge declarations, studies etc.)

    Before getting to the level of connection between Collina and Milan I’ll have to introduce you to a new character. His name is Leaonardo Meani and he was Galliani’s right hand man. Meani’s job while at Milan was Director of Referee Relations. Milan was the only team in Italy to employ a person to maintain good referee relations (isn’t it illegal for teams to interact with referees?). Meani was intercepted numerous times speaking with referees and linesmen and I can send you the transcripts another time (I tried downloading the actual calls but I keep getting error messages). For now I just want to introduce the person, his job, and his phone call with Collina.

    The call:

    It was phone call intercept #5610 of the Neapolitan prosecutors that saw Milan director Meani conversing with Italy’s #1 referee Pierluigi Collina. The two were initially badmouthing Juventus and were then heard discussing the urgency of a meeting between Collina, Meani, and Milan Vice President (and League President) Adriano Galliani. The two were overheard discussing the impossibility of meeting in Siena where Milan had just played (and Collina had just refereed) because the town is too small and their meeting could not be noticed by the public. Meani asks Collina when he will next be in Milan and Collina mentions that he will be there shortly for personal reasons. Meani suggests meeting in his restaurant on a day that the restaurant is closed and they even discuss what they will eat. Galliani’s name is mentioned and Meani informs Collina of how urgently Galliani needs to speak to him. Collina also says that he intended on speaking with him over a few things…including his future. Meani assures Collina that no one will see them in the restaurant and that they are taking no risks in meeting at the restaurant. Meani even brags about the referees he requested and obtained for an upcoming match in the phone intercept #5630 and Collina congratulates him for his influence over Mazzei (Linesmen Designer for Serie A and B).

    These calls were eventually investigated throughout Calciopoli and Meani was suspended for 3 and a half years…Collina was instead made Head Referee Designer for Serie A and B. Meani also has a far more damaging conversation intercepted with Linesmen Coppelli where he actually tells him what to do during their next game and threatens him should he not comply. I’ll get into that on another occasion. Another beauty was the Meani promise of Berlusconi paying for another referee’s hair plugs in Switzerland if he helped Milan. Again we’ll get into that one on another day if you like.
    This activity is in clear violation of the Article 6 rule. Let me sidetrack for a moment and explain the difference between Article 1 and Article 6. An Article 1 violation is basically unsportsmanlike activity. This could be badmouthing, obscene gestures, rumor spreading etc. The offense is punishable by point deductions. An Article 6 violation is actually interfering with the regular process of a game and therefore altering the standings. This is considered illicit or illegal sporting activity like bribing or influencing referees through threats or gifts. This is punishable by automatic relegation to a lesser league (Serie B). This is the offense Juventus was punished for despite being found not guilty. On another day I’ll translate and send you the original sentence from the Federal Court of Appeal (CAF) that finds them not guilty and then proceeds to send them to Serie B anyway.

    Why was Milan not sent to B? Meani was considered an independent. He was acting on his own accord and Milan knew nothing of it…this was the excuse. Records show he was an employee and numerous wire taps show him speaking with Adriano Galliani while Meani was in a car with coach Carlo Ancellotti. Thanks to this obvious excuse the court could sentence Leonardo Meani and not sentence Milan to Serie B for Article 6 violations (even though Milan benefitted from his activities). In the end Milan was punished with a point deduction (that kept them within Champions League contention) for Article 1 violations.

    This argument is ridiculous because it is obvious that Galliani knew all about Meani’s activities. On the 19 of April 2005 a phone call was recorded between Meani and Galliani that I have taken the time to translate. All I can do to reassure you is promise that I will not alter words or connotations. My Italian is as pure as my English and I swear to give the conversation as it is and not exaggerate the case at all. I’m taking you seriously and hope you do the same.

    Milan had just lost a game and Galliani was upset about the officiating. They were set to play again in an upcoming match where Linesmen Claudio Puglisi was requested by Milan to be the referee assistant.

    Galliani: Good day, did you speak to one of the two designers?
    Meani: My God did I ever. Ancellotti was in the car too. We cursed the $#@! out of them.
    G: to who?
    M: Bergamo and Mazzei (Referee designer and Linesmen designer)
    G: oh
    M: Because Pairetto (other referee designer and Galliani friend) is in Germany.
    G: oh…so what did they have to say?
    M: They were $#@!ting themselves. Usual responses, who would have thought he would have made such an error. That’s not even the point though, the point is if the team is Milan and there is the slightest doubt you keep your flag down and I told them that! You don’t just raise your flag! These people aren’t ready psychologically. Now look, they are sending us Puglisi for the next game.
    G: oh ya?
    M: He’ll be the Linesmen when we play Chievo. I told them that from now on they are not allowed to screw up with us, unless they are on the opposite side of the field…you know what I mean?
    G: uh huh
    M: We have to stay on them now, now is the dangerous time (he likely meant the end of the season given the date of he call).
    G: Good good, I know, good.

    Does it sound like Galliani knew nothing? If you change the names to Moggi and Giraudo these phone calls would be scandalous…but Milan got away with it. Maybe because they were never played on the air like other wire taps or maybe because they were never printed in newspapers. In fact, until the case was closed we knew nothing of them. Once the case was closed and all documents were made public we found these calls and others and only now people are starting to understand the extent of Milan’s activities.
    End result, Galliani stepped down as League President but is still the Milan Vice President and Meani was suspended for 3.5 years (though it was somewhat reduced later). Milan stayed in Serie A and in the Champions League. Juventus on the other hand who had no wire taps requesting referees (and obtaining them), who had no conversations recorded with referees or linesmen, had no private meetings with referees or linesmen, paid for no referees hair plugs, and never instructed designers or referees on how to officiate their games, lost two titles and wound up a dismantled team in Serie B with point deductions and home stadium suspensions for 2 games. It seems needless to add that they would be out of Europe for at least 2 years.

    Chief Investigator from the FIGC Francesco Saverio Borrelli met with Galliani behind closed doors during the investigation. Neither denied the meeting (probably because reporters were waiting for Galliani outside of Borrelli’s office). Since when does an investigator meet with a defendant behind closed doors? Mysteriously Milan’s charges were dropped from Article 6 violations to Article 1 violations just days later.

    If it interests you I have Meani, Glliani, and Puglisi’s interrogations. It is lengthy and all in Italian though.

    I have given you a basic rundown of Milan’s main characters, structure, and specifics on their relationship with Collina but I haven’t really scratched the surface yet as to Milan’s activities.
    Last edited by gsol; 19.10.2007 at 21:47.

  13. #73
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    The Swiss SIM Cards:

    After a year of failing to provide proof of match fixing, the Neapolitan prosecutors introduced a new argument. Allegedly Moggi provide referees with Swiss SIM cards to communicate without being spied. Since the prosecutors couldn't listen it was assumed all illegal activity could be found on those calls. Moggi and the referees responded by saying that they never made or received calls from each other. This portion of the trial is still going on.

    The Neapolitan magistrates responded to Moggi and the referee’s denials by producing tables showing dates, times, and numbers called throughout the season of 2004-2005. Moggi responded saying that the numbers may have been real but the calls and tables were falsified. They all continued to deny ever having called each other. Obviously no one believed them.

    As a result Moggi went on national television and claimed that through various computer programs, these tables can be falsified. He was ridiculed by the panel and the public. A week later he was invited back on the show and in an attempt to discredit him they invited a telephone company technician as well.

    The technician shows how easy it is through a computer to falsify a phone call. Watch as the technician has one person on the panel shut his phone off. Then he used a computer to call another panel member with the number of the phone that is off. The number of the dead pone appeared on the recipient’s phone screen. Moggi has a certain smile on his face…the crowd remained silent.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2fSAxRNGFJM

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=vvv3qOoUA5Y

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=M6RTt5quftQ

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=JciFOvfu7HQ

    The technician actually goes on to say that through a program called “Cambia Voce” (Voice Change), that a phone call can be made from person A to person B with the voice of person C. In other words many of the phone calls presented in court may have been of other people all together. All that is needed is a recording of Moggi’s voice. The recording then duplicates tone, volume, pitch, etc. and another person can make a call with his voice. This from the mouth of a telephone technician, he claimed he would be willing to testify.

  14. #74
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    I just thought I’d post an example of the differences between the actual phone calls intercepted and the excerpts found on the various pro Inter sports papers. This article came from “Il Corriere dello Sport” which is run by a prick named Bartolozzi who also serves as Inter’s team manger (the same position Pessotto has with Juventus). The article can be found here http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/S...ttazioni.shtml

    The call is between Dondarini (referee) and Pairetto (referee designer) after a game between Juventus and Sampdoria. Amazingly this game wasn’t originally being questioned at all. The accusation was originally the 1-0 Juventus-Sampdoria game but was eventually altered. See the accusation was that Moggi had convinced the referee to allow an offside Juventus goal paving the way to a 1-0 win for Juve. The game actually ended 1-0 for Sampdoria after Aimo Diana scored an offside goal. The prosecutor quickly changed the game in question.

    In this game Juvenus win 3-0 and the game ends in violence. A penalty is awarded to Juventus and one is later denied for Sampdoria.

    Here’s the Corriere’s take on the call:

    Dondarini: See that battle?

    Pairetto: $#@!

    D: The guys from Sampdoria were out of their minds. I swear if it wasn’t for the Juve players helping me I don’t know how it would have ended. Then I had to give that penalty Gigi (Pairetto)

    P: Sure I believe it from your position.

    D: Sure, but I tell you, I tried…to you know, to make the game end in that way

    This gives the reader the impression that Dondarini was forced to give a penalty and intended on steering a game in a specific direction.
    Here’s what Bartolozzi’s Corrire dello sport edited:

    Dondarini: See that battle?

    Pairetto: $#@!

    D: The guys from Sampdoria were out of their minds, had it not been for the Juve players helping out who knows how bad it would have gotten. Then with Emerson, he didn’t dive at all, he tried to get through and the defender practically grabbed him and fell bringing him down too while hugging him, and Emerson falls backwards. Emerson looked at me as if to say “hey, this is a penalty” and I had no problem blowing the whistle and pointed to the spot.

    P: Sure I believe it from your position.

    D: It’s just that no one there understood at the moment, especially the public so the tension became complaints (by Sampdoria players). Thankfully there was a camera right behind the net that proved the penalty was right. What is this? You can’t give a penalty to a big club now?

    Later regarding the Sampdoria penalty:

    Dondarini: I blew the whistle…Ambrosini (linesmen)…

    Pairetto: He indicated a penalty?

    D: He did, he said it was a penalty so I pointed to the spot but then he came to me and said “Donda, I’m sorry I $#@!ed up. Don’t give the penalty because we’ll look like idiots” so I figured it’s 3-0 anyway (for Juventus) and I said “Marcello, by now let’s just give the penalty (to Sampdoria)” and he says “no look, absolutely don’t give it because we’re going to give the impression that we’re $#@! ups” because it was a corner. He seemed so convinced that I overturned the penalty. I was trying to you know limit the damages of making the game end in that way.

    P: Ya sure.

    D: I know the episode was ugly but in the end it’s better that we didn’t give the penalty I think.

    This was the point that the Sampdoria players went into a massive frenzy and the game finished with pushing and shoving.

    Amazingly though, even the Turin magistrates that looked at this case long before Calciopoli stated that from the (entire) phone call it was apparent that Dondarini gave Juventus their penalty in a professional and proper manner and overturned Sampdoria’s penalty in much the same way. Actually, he was willing to give a penalty against Juventus knowing it wasn’t the correct decision just to keep the peace on the field. The magistrates actually stated that if anything, Dondarini favored Sampdoria. I quote the
    Turin magistrate Marcello Maddalena:

    “Dondarini may have helped Sampdoria by:
    - Not booking the Sampdoria players after their unsportsmanlike conduct and the end of the match
    - Showing a willingness to give them a penalty knowing that it was not in accordance with the rules of the league”

    Then Calciopoli happened and the newspapers mysteriously got a hold of the transcripts. In this one I’d say 90% is omitted and the words that were left painted a very specific picture.

  15. #75
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    The Paparesta deal is easy and stupid. Paparesta made terrible calls against Juventus in favour of Reggina (ignored penalty and two annulled goals). After the game Moggi went into the locker to room with Giraudo and yelled at Paparesta. It should be noted that according to league rules, directors are allowed to go into the referee locker room before and after a game but not during. In this case no harm done since it was after the game.

    Moggi yelled at Paparesta and the linesmen (Coppelli who was found on the phone taking instructions from Milan's Meani on how to keep the flag down for Milan and up for others) and Di Mauro in an embarrassing fashion.
    Moggi later made a crucial error. In a phone call afterwards he claimed that he locked the referees in the locker room, boarded a plane and left. Eye witness accounts including Paparesta's testimony to the court (which I have and can send to anyone interested) do not state that he or anyone else was ever trapped in a locker room. In addition, stadium surveillance recordings show Paparesta leaving at the normal hour.

    Unfortunately Moggi’s attempt at sounding tougher than he was backfired as the Gazetta got the recording and publicized it. The declaration from Chief Investigator Borelli and testimony of Paparesta himself (I have both if anyone is interested) didn’t make the headlines. Moggi’s charges for “Unlawful Detainment” of Paparesta, Di Mauro, and Coppelli were all dropped. No one wrote about it though.

    The day after the game Paparesta called Moggi to explain himself. Moggi insulted him and said “non ho voglia di parlarti” (I have no desire to speak with you) and hung up. I have the call and sent it to many.


    By the way, Paparesta is an admitted Milanista.

  16. #76
    In bocca al lupo, Fabio. Seven's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurri7 View Post
    You're not funny....incase you're trying to be.
    And you're not rational, in case you try to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerknes View Post
    Do you really think Trump is an idiot?

    He's a businessman. What's to say he wouldn't make the right choice when in office? He's not kept abreast of military intelligence in the Middle East because he doesn't have access to it and perhaps doesn't have the time to be. But that's not to say he wouldn't make an astute decision when he has all the facts in front of him.

  17. #77
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    to get a better scope of Inter's financial ties to the Calciopoli scandal read this article:
    http://goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=299625

  18. #78
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    Sorry if I sound onesided. But the case was onesided so writing about it (even trying to be objective) will come off onesided.

    To me it is wrong to just accept a notion when nothing exists to back it up. That is called disinformation and or propaganda.

    The type of journalism Juventus were subjected to was the same type of sensationalistic character smearing that convinced the Germans of the 30's that the Jews were evil. It pitted muslims against America and vice versa, it convinced the world that our planet was flat once. I prefer facts everywhere. I want to see proof.

    I never set out to claim Moggi was innocent. I just wanted to see how he cheated. What I found out was that he and Juve were more cheated than cheaters.

    The motives are all financial and political and everything now points to it. English readers are just less likely to come across all of this because so little has been written in our language about it. I am fortunate enough to have been raised in Italy and elsewhere...otherwise I'd be as misinformed as many of you. I don't mean that as an offence.

    It's not your fault that you can't read the facts in Italian...but when someone posts the facts in English and you choose to disregard them because they are inconvenient then it becomes your fault.

    Regardless of what your team is read the stuff posted and know that it stems from over a year of research and countless cross referencing and not the passion of a fan who likes to state mere opinions.

    I have all the trial documents from the sentences of Calciopoli to the doping charges, and even teh appeals that never made it to court (in pdf). I also have the wire taps used in the trial (in mp3).

    Without being offensive and silly I am making them available to whoever wants them. NOT so you will love Juve and NOT so you will hate Inter but so you can all draw your own conclusions based on informed opinions. If after being exposed to all that you still think Juventus deserved Serie B than so be it. At least give the facts a try though.

    By the way this isn't the work of one person. Nearly 3000 people including very notable lawyers (like Luc Mission of the Bosman case) are appealing this in European court as we speak.

  19. #79
    Juventuz regular gsol's Avatar

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    There is a lot more than this but one step at a time. Just for the record it should be stated (in response to those who question Inter's position in Italian soccer).

    Moratti is the VP of the League and his team's biggest sponsor is Tronchetti Provera who owns Telecom (provided the wire taps) and Pirelli Tires (Inter's sponsor).

    Through Telecom's sister company TIM he is Italian soccer's #1 sponsor. Ever notice SeriA TIM, Serie B TIM, Coppa Italia TIM, and Supercoppa Italiana TIM? That's a lot of money being thrown at the league by Inter's biggest sponsor no?

    No wonder they got former director Guido Rossi to become FIGC Commissioner for the Calciopoli trial. It didn't last long because he was offered a better job as soon as Juve were sent to Serie B. He was offered a director's position at...TELECOM ITALIA by Tronchetti.

  20. #80
    Juventuz champion Gill_juve's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    You great, great man. We back behind club must pull! We become BIG, BIGGER, BIGGEST! INTER DIES!! INTER DIES!!!! INTER DIEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!
    ~"In the next five years I want to win the Champions League and the FIFA Club World Cup with Juve" ~

    Forza Gigi Buffon!!

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