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  1. #21
    Juventuz legend Marc's Avatar

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    The difference between Denco and Gsol is that Gsol sounds much more convincing. At least to me. Denco hasn´t stated anything fruitful. He wants to believe Juventus are guilty. He doesn´t read half of the stuff Gsol posted and yet he claims that Gsol´s text is junk. Gsol provisdes facts, original documents and everything he posts sounds reasonable and interesting.

    Gsol, keep up the good job and don´t listen to this. I was once also ignorant like this but not anymore. I want things to be completely cleared up and you are helping us all.

  2. #22
    Biased JCK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    why most of you against Juve in this case

    looks like,you can give your life to prove Juventus are guilty
    Where do you see me against Juve or giving my life for anything?
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  3. #23
    No good Elvin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikoninhosa View Post
    The difference between Denco and Gsol is that Gsol sounds much more convincing. At least to me. Denco hasn´t stated anything fruitful. He wants to believe Juventus are guilty. He doesn´t read half of the stuff Gsol posted and yet he claims that Gsol´s text is junk. Gsol provisdes facts, original documents and everything he posts sounds reasonable and interesting.

    Gsol, keep up the good job and don´t listen to this. I was once also ignorant like this but not anymore. I want things to be completely cleared up and you are helping us all.
    Don't really like my bubbles being burst, you know?
    ALESSANDRO DEL PIERO
    sono sempre al tuo fianco

  4. #24
    Juventino

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCK View Post
    Where do you see me against Juve or giving my life for anything?
    some fans against his club when club need them more than anytime

    I mean denco.he is talking like galliani's lawyer.He wants to prove our guilty clearly.
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  5. #25
    Superior Being denco's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsol View Post
    Denco, being able to speak fluent Italian gave me the possibility to research the subject. Are you aware of th fact that the very sentences that sent Juve to Serie B sstate that they were NOT GUILTY of Match Fixing?

    If you still think its nonesense finish reading the initial post and then read the next one.
    You are a man of intelligence and I am not being condescending at all.

    Are you saying that in this day and age that a team as big as Juventus can be relegated for no particular reason?

    I admire your crusade for truth and justice but I think you need to dig up more if you are gonna write a book

    You have to be more objective in your views.

    Some of the things that you wrote just beggar belief

    How can you say Moggi and Giraudo were acting independently of Juventus, if Juventus actually benefitted from it and they were Juventus at that time?

    If Milan got away with it, does that make it right? Also are the circumstances exactly the same? Were the personnel involved for Milan as powerful and as influential in Milan matters as Moggi and Girado had at Juventus?

    The article about a Milan official telling the linesman to not put his flag up for offside or what have you is just childish and should never have been brought up.

    The Lecce vs Parma game would not have been brought up in Juventus case, it would have been brought up in case involving Fiorentina or are you forgetting that Juventus was not the only club charged and tha Fiorentina were initially relegated?

    Please can you knock it off with the we were victimised bull$#@! because we were not.

    How many times can a club be allowed to get away with murder or were we completely innocent of drug charges as well?

    Look at the likes of Dp, Vieri, Tacchinardi, Zz, men that by 29/30 could run quickly to save their lives.

    Good luck in your book but please pay particular attention to your research work and you need to get reports from both sides because what you are describing is a conspiracy to blacken the name of a club that has been dabbling with controversy for like forever
    Live premiership and La Liga games on saturday and sunday, The Milan Derby and Barcelona vs Real Madridhttp://www.footballclubsblog.com/

  6. #26
    Biased JCK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    some fans against his club when club need them more than anytime

    I mean denco.he is talking like galliani's lawyer.He wants to prove our guilty clearly.
    As I said earlier, I can only help the club by supporting them. I cannot uncover conspiracies (regardless if I believe that it was a conspiracy or not). I stand by my club no matter where they are, I don't hate any other club or any other person (Inter and Moratti included) and this does not make me less of a fan than you. Not a bigger fan for the matter.

    I told gsol yesterday that the Calciopoli is boring for me, he told me if that losing two titles, six star players, a coach a sum of money is boring then he doubted my loyalty to the club. The fact is, I am a person who does not enjoy lawsuits and the sort so I stand by point that Calciopoli is boring. I prefer watching a football game where Juve play Modena in Serie B than reading an article written by a reporter from Napoli, translated by a Swiss and posted on goal.com.

    Juventus were sent to Serie B, this is a fact I know. Was it just or was it a conspiracy? I don't care anymore, my team is in Serie A and I am happy tracking its current news. I am not making any effort to clear Galliani's image, to prove Juventus were guilty or to plan a masterplan to torture Moratti every second for the rest of his life.

    If you think that we don't care about the club then you are mistaken and if you think we are not true fans then it's time to realise that there are people who don't give a rat's ass about your opinion.
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  7. #27
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    if fans were not unconcerned like this,we would never be relegated
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  8. #28
    Biased JCK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    if fans were not unconcerned like this,we would never be relegated
    All the fans were concerned at the time and they could do nothing.
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  9. #29
    Superior Being denco's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikoninhosa View Post
    The difference between Denco and Gsol is that Gsol sounds much more convincing. At least to me. Denco hasn´t stated anything fruitful. He wants to believe Juventus are guilty. He doesn´t read half of the stuff Gsol posted and yet he claims that Gsol´s text is junk. Gsol provisdes facts, original documents and everything he posts sounds reasonable and interesting.

    Gsol, keep up the good job and don´t listen to this. I was once also ignorant like this but not anymore. I want things to be completely cleared up and you are helping us all.
    I am not trying to convince you about anything or anybody for that matter but you have to be a 5 year old or younger to think that a team with millions of supporters worldwide, the biggest club in Italy witht he largest fans in Italy would be relegated for no reason other than the fact that Inter wanted us relegated.

    It is just as stupid as Moratti blaming all Inter's woes on Moggi and Juventus in the past.

    WE WERE GUILTY AS SIN , GET OVER IT.

    The fact that other clubs were guilty does not make us innocent

    It seems that unless you believe Juventus is innocent then you are not a true fan.

    On the contrary, a true fan accepts that his or her club cheated, takes any punishment dished out and still supports the club.

    A true fan supports the club through thick and thin, not pretending to support the club by claiming their victimised so as to not accept that his/her beloved club are cheats.

    What happens when you finally accept your club cheated? would you stop supporting them? What does that make you huh?

    Loving your club is not coming up with ridiculous statements like Juventus is the world cup winners since the 1934 and 1938 cos they provided the Italian team with players or that Adam and Eve were Juventus thru and thru or that Darwin's theory of evolution was about Juventus.

    It means that no matter what, you still support that club, and accept there will be good and bad times and your former board were naughty
    Live premiership and La Liga games on saturday and sunday, The Milan Derby and Barcelona vs Real Madridhttp://www.footballclubsblog.com/

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCK View Post
    All the fans were concerned at the time and they could do nothing.

    we have 11 million fans in italy,even quarter of those people cannot be ignored
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  11. #31
    Biased JCK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    we have 11 million fans in italy,even quarter of those people cannot be ignored
    And?

    These 11 million and 22 million others from other countries screaming at the same time that Juventus were not guilty will not change the fact that we were relegated nor it will put Moratti behind bars and relegate Inter for the conspiracy they made.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCK View Post
    And?

    These 11 million and 22 million others from other countries screaming at the same time that Juventus were not guilty will not change the fact that we were relegated nor it will put Moratti behind bars and relegate Inter for the conspiracy they made.
    if they would act like they are one fist,they would be bigger than moratti and co.
    public opinion is arbiter fact in trials like this.

    they have whole italian media(most powerful weapon in this days) and people believed them,then we are relegated
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  13. #33
    Biased JCK's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    if they would act like they are one fist,they would be bigger than moratti and co.
    public opinion is arbiter fact in trials like this.

    they have whole italian media(most powerful weapon in this days) and people believed them,then we are relegated
    Ok. Until you succeed, I will enjoy my life.
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  14. #34
    Primavera player Javier_Zanetti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsol View Post
    This story was nearly 10 years in the making and has nothing to do with soccer and everything to do with money, power, and politics. I'm involved in various activities revolving around Calciopoli and have become somewhat of an expert in the topic. I'm fluent in Italian and as a result have been able to go through archives of newspaper articles, interviews, and books (written by lawyers). The most evidence you will get however is in reading the declarations and sentences left by the judges that presided over the trials and appeals. Most Juventus and Anti-Juventus fans (outside of Italy) have no idea that no shred of evidence existed linking Moggi and company to a single fixed game. Most people are unaware of the judge's declaration that "no game was fixed and referee selections were legitimate" Cesare Ruperto CAF judge. So why the punishments? Equally puzzling, why did Milan get a slap on the wrist after Meani threatened a linesman over the phone "when Milan is on the field keep your flag down unless the ball is on the opposite side of the field otherwise we'll chop your head off" Leonardo Meani. Why was an Inter investor and former Inter employee allowed to control the trial? This man Guido Rossi not only omitted evidence that would have cleared Juventus but discarded evidence that would have condemned his former employers (Inter). Do people know that there was phone tap evidence of Udinese and Milan organizing a tie? Do people know that there was phone tap evidence of Galliani and Collina meeting personally after hours at Meani's restaurant? Do people know the same man that sponsors Italian soccer through his ownership of TIM Mobile managed to intercept the phone calls that would eventually be used against Juventus? Do they know that he gave them to his partner (Moratti) illegally through a police officer who sanctioned the intercepts and then ordered that they be altered or destroyed in cases where Inter were incriminated? Eventually a security employee at Telecom Italia confessed to the shady wire taps and the police officer killed himself on July 21st 2006 (his name was Adamo Bove). Does anyone know that the wire taps were never listened to in court despite Juventus defense requesting it? When Juventus requested to use video evidence it was denied too. People are in the dark on this case because it is convenient to many to believe that their team was losing because someone else was cheating...others are unwillingly in the dark because evidence is hard to find and hard to understand (unless you are fluent in Italian). As a result I have been strongly considering writing a book in English regarding the case (now known in Italy as Farsopoli). I am questioning the level of public interest however. It would take months to put together and I'd hate to do it for nothing. For now though feel free to ask me whatever you want and I'll do what I can to shed light on the situation. I'm more than happy to answer your questions. For now I'd suggest reading this article which helps understand why the media painted such an ugly picture of Juventus. http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=299625 Let me know what you think. If you get anything out of this article it should be the web of power Juve were up against. Here are some names in powerful positions just to give you an idea:

    - FIGC President (at the time): Franco Carraro (ex-Milan President and co owner of Lazio/Roma through his control of Capitalia Credit Bank)
    - La Lega Calcio President: Adriano Galliani (Milan Vie President)
    - Italian Referees Association (AIA) President: Tulio Lanese good friend and political affiliate of Silvio Berlusconi and known Milanista (known on wire taps as Tulio “miLanese”)
    - FIGC Referee Designers: Bergamo and Pairetto underlings of Carraro, Lanese, and Galliani as evidenced by the wire taps…now Collina after secretly meeting with Galliani assumed that role
    - Prime Minister (at the time): Silvio Berlusconi who controls several TV stations, magazines, and newspapers, as well as controlling one of Italy’s biggest political parties (Forza Italia). Through his TV station ownership Berlusconi controls all Soccer TV rights (therefore ad revenue) for all teams competing in Serie A and B (this would later be used as blackmail to keep Milan in the Champions League).
    - Italian Soccer Sponsor: Tronchetti Provera (massive Inter shareholder and personal friend of Moratti) owns Telecom Italia and its sister company TIM Mobile and which not only provided Inter owner Moratti with phone intercepts but also sponsors all soccer competition in Italy (Serie A TIM, Coppa Italia TIM, Supercoppa Italiana TIM)…also owns Pirelli Tires (Inter primary sponsor) and also owns LA7 (major Italian TV Station)
    - Federcalcio (FIGC Investigations) President: Borelli, a political associate of Berlusconi and discovered having meetings behind closed doors with Galliani throughout the trial
    - Federcalcio Commissioner: Guido Rossi, major Inter shareholder and former Inter director also sat on Telecom Italia’s board of directors
    - President of la Gazzetta dello Sport: Carlo Bore also acting as Vice President of Inter
    - Editor and Chief of la Gazzetta dello Sport: Verdelli and Cannavo’ both Inter shareholders
    - Vice President of Federcalcio: Massimo Moratti Inter Owner
    - Current Commissioner of the Federcalcio Investigating Inter for Accounting Fraud: Stefanini acting lawyer for La Spezia soccer team (40% of which is owned by Moratti)

    So...still sound like a "Moggi controlled system"?

    Finally (and believe me there is still WAY more to the story) I want to inform you of what our team was actually accused of. The accusation of match fixing revolved around three games. This is key to the case and all but proves how ridiculous it was.

    Game 1: Lecce-Parma – yes you read right. The game has nothing at all to do with Juventus but this game allowed Fiorentina to survive Serie A in 2005. The ccusation is that the Moggi controlled referee De Santis fixed the match at the request of Moggi after Della Valle (Fiorentina owner) asked Moggi for help. Moggi actually can’t stand De Santis and De Santis can’t stand Juventus. It was De Santis (admitted Interista) that disallowed a legitimate Juventus goal in the Italian Supercup costing Juve the trophy and handing it to Inter wrongfully. All intercepted phone calls regarding this game showed Della Valle contacting Bergamo (referee designer) and Carraro (FIGC president) and Mazzei (FIGC Vice President) directly with no mention of Luciano Moggi.

    Game 2: Juventus-Udinese – the actual “fixed” game was Udinese-Bologna the week before. The idea was for the Moggi controlled referee to give yellow cards to Udinese players that were already carrying yellow cards so that they couldn’t play against Juventus. The players handed yellow cards that day were Pinzi and Di Michele. In actual fact neither was carrying yellows and both were on the field against Juventus the following match day.

    Game 3: Juventus-Sampdoria – here the accusation was that the Moggi controlled referee allowed an offside goal to stand granting Juventus a 1-0 win over Sampdoria. The game actually ended 0-1 for Sampdoria with Aimo Diana scoring an offside goal. The result can be found on espn.com still today.

    To close it should be noted that both Cesare Ruperto (CAF judge) and Piero Sandulli (Federal Court judge) declared that no system of pre-planned yellow cards existed and that no game was fixed by referees. It was also expressed that referee designations occurred throughout the season regularly. In other words the season was legit. The phone calls showed unsportsmanlike conduct by all parties but this is an Article 1 offense punishable by a 1 to 3 point deduction and a possible fine.

    Finally the CAF sentence declared that “though no Article 6 offense can be found in the investigation, the overall conduct of Moggi and Giraudo (the latter heard on 3-5 phone calls mostly about nothing) created an unsportsmanlike environment favorable to Juventus in the standings AS EVIDENED BY THEIR 1ST PLACE FINISH IN THE SEASON IN QUESTION”. This is like saying that driving is proof of being a car thief. In the end the sentence tried to lead us to believe that Juventus obtained an unfair advantage in the standings without conditioning referees or fixing a single game…mysterious no?

    Feel free to ask me anymore questions. By the way...there isn't a single recorded conversation between Moggi and a referee or linesmen with one exception; Paparesta called Moggi to apologize after a mistake of his cost Juventus a game against Reggina. Moggi said one line "I have nothing to say to you" and hung up.

    I enjoy shedding light on these matters so feel free to share my points with others and ask me whatever you like.

    FORZA JUVE!
    There's one massive, and with massive I mean M A S S I V E, flaw in that "impartial" write-up of yours. Seeing as I'm a nice bloke, I'll show you the way.

    Look son, you provided more than one "piece of evidence" that Milan were heavily involved in Calciopoli. Fine, let's assume they were indeed. If so, how come Inter, the big bad boys, the masterminds behind everything sinister, the perpetrators of 9/11 and Tsunami, didn't inflict punishment on Milan like they did with poor hapless Juventus?

    Afterall, if Inter were running everything from A-Z they would've absolutely attempted to destory Milan as well, especially with all this "evidence" on show. If relegating juventus based on hearsay was a piece of cake I'm sure wouldn't it have been that hard to eliminate Milan as well. But instead all Moratti could do is deduct a measly 8 points off 'em, inspite of all the EVIDENCE!! you displayed. So much for him being a criminal genius!

    Yeah, time to re-think that book thinggy. Or may be you should go ahead and do it, but don't forget to include Cesare Zaccone's statements. You know who Zaccone is right? Juve's chief ATTORNEY. Oh wait, could he possibly be yet another Inter ally? Does his daughter in law work for Telecom? Perhaps Capobianco's confessions would also add the necessary element of excitement to your book. Probably Nucini's too. Hell may be you should go as far as adding the glaring fact that every (ok, most.) juventino chooses to ignore: Both Moggi and Giraudo being tossed out like dogs even before the verdict was announced. Juventus didn't defend them, I wonder why...eventhough they've been at the club for ages. Note how none of the other implicated clubs made changes to their management (unlike Juventus), note how all the implicated clubs maintained innocence while Juventus seeked Serie B without penalization. Why would a totally 'clean' club accept their fate so easily? Why would Cobolli come out and say that this is a new clean and transparent Juventus?

    P.S. Here's a nice article though, from a proper writer not some wannabe who must be spot on because he...speaks fluent ITALIAN!!!!. Wow, you must feel really proud.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...icle718222.ece
    "How to lose the champions league in 6 minutes"
    By Carlo Arselotti
    in bookstores near you, SOON.
    25 MAGGIO...FESTA INTERNAZIONALE
    http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showth...ghlight=timely

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti View Post
    Look son, you provided more than one "piece of evidence" that Milan were heavily involved in Calciopoli. Fine, let's assume they were indeed. If so, how come Inter, the big bad boys, the masterminds behind everything sinister, the perpetrators of 9/11 and Tsunami, didn't inflict punishment on Milan like they did with poor hapless Juventus?
    that's why

    FIGC President (at the time): Franco Carraro (ex-Milan President and co owner of Lazio/Roma through his control of Capitalia Credit Bank)
    - La Lega Calcio President: Adriano Galliani (Milan Vie President)
    - Italian Referees Association (AIA) President: Tulio Lanese good friend and political affiliate of Silvio Berlusconi and known Milanista (known on wire taps as Tulio “miLanese”)
    - FIGC Referee Designers: Bergamo and Pairetto underlings of Carraro, Lanese, and Galliani as evidenced by the wire taps…now Collina after secretly meeting with Galliani assumed that role
    - Prime Minister (at the time): Silvio Berlusconi who controls several TV stations, magazines, and newspapers, as well as controlling one of Italy’s biggest political parties (Forza Italia). Through his TV station ownership Berlusconi controls all Soccer TV rights (therefore ad revenue) for all teams competing in Serie A and B (this would later be used as blackmail to keep Milan in the Champions League).
    - Italian Soccer Sponsor: Tronchetti Provera (massive Inter shareholder and personal friend of Moratti) owns Telecom Italia and its sister company TIM Mobile and which not only provided Inter owner Moratti with phone intercepts but also sponsors all soccer competition in Italy (Serie A TIM, Coppa Italia TIM, Supercoppa Italiana TIM)…also owns Pirelli Tires (Inter primary sponsor) and also owns LA7 (major Italian TV Station)
    - Federcalcio (FIGC Investigations) President: Borelli, a political associate of Berlusconi and discovered having meetings behind closed doors with Galliani throughout the trial
    - Federcalcio Commissioner: Guido Rossi, major Inter shareholder and former Inter director also sat on Telecom Italia’s board of directors
    - President of la Gazzetta dello Sport: Carlo Bore also acting as Vice President of Inter
    - Editor and Chief of la Gazzetta dello Sport: Verdelli and Cannavo’ both Inter shareholders
    - Vice President of Federcalcio: Massimo Moratti Inter Owner
    - Current Commissioner of the Federcalcio Investigating Inter for Accounting Fraud: Stefanini acting lawyer for La Spezia soccer team (40% of which is owned by Moratti)
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  16. #36
    Primavera player Javier_Zanetti's Avatar

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    That indeed is a proper answer to the excerpt you quoted. Not shocking coming from a dullard though.

    On the upside, I can see that your mental capacity evolved enough to use the highly advanced procedure of copy&paste.

    Give yourself a pat on the back turkey, you earned it son.
    "How to lose the champions league in 6 minutes"
    By Carlo Arselotti
    in bookstores near you, SOON.
    25 MAGGIO...FESTA INTERNAZIONALE
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  17. #37
    Primavera player Javier_Zanetti's Avatar

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    Btw, rumor has it that the reason behind Romano Prodi's electoral success was Moratti's moral and financial backing. Not only were Juventus screwed over by DON Massimo Moratti, but so was Berlusconi.

    The plot thickens..
    "How to lose the champions league in 6 minutes"
    By Carlo Arselotti
    in bookstores near you, SOON.
    25 MAGGIO...FESTA INTERNAZIONALE
    http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showth...ghlight=timely

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti View Post
    That indeed is a proper answer to the excerpt you quoted. Not shocking coming from a dullard though.

    On the upside, I can see that your mental capacity evolved enough to use the highly advanced procedure of copy&paste.

    Give yourself a pat on the back turkey, you earned it son.
    you should remember I have no tolerance against $#@!ing loser,especially if he is insulting

    one more insult against juve or me,then I am not responsible
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

  19. #39
    Primavera player Javier_Zanetti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk_Bianconero View Post
    you should remember I have no tolerance against $#@!ing loser,especially if he is insulting

    one more insult against juve or me,then I am not responsible
    What wit and wisdom - THERE'S ONLY ONE Turk.

    Where are the other two stooges, fatassdrivel and what's his name, Abusomething. Oh man, those were the days.
    "How to lose the champions league in 6 minutes"
    By Carlo Arselotti
    in bookstores near you, SOON.
    25 MAGGIO...FESTA INTERNAZIONALE
    http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showth...ghlight=timely

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier_Zanetti View Post
    What wit and wisdom - THERE'S ONLY ONE Turk.

    Where are the other two stooges, fatassdrivel and what's his name, Abusomething. Oh man, those were the days.

    they are busy,ask to interisti womans
    they should know where are they
    It was destined to have this outcome, I never stopped believing.
    Thank you all, guys. Let's enjoy it, we've earned it hard.
    I was here, you were here. We were here. And we are here at last. We are back.


    Alessandro

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