Claudio Marchisio - Player discussion - Juventuz Forums - Page 1663
Page 1663 of 1689 FirstFirst ... 6631163156316131653166116621663166416651673 ... LastLast
Results 33,241 to 33,260 of 33773
  1. #33241
    Juventuz regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,731
    Cash
    5,193
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    We dont play with nr 10 in 3 man midfield heh. And if we do its Dybala.
    Thats what it says in the thesis. A number 4,8 and 10 if we are going by that. We are playing with a number 4 and two no 8, which doesnt fit the narrative.

  2. #33242
    Juventuz legend zizinho's Avatar
    Yahtzee Champion Penguin Bashing Champion Rick Dangerous Champion Hexxagon Champion Asteroids Champion
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    36,904
    Cash
    1,367,178
    Mentioned
    2047 Post(s)
    Damn I miss Pogba
    36 SUL CAMPO ✔

    Sign Max Meyer!!!

    Sell H16UAIN!!! ICARDI!!!!

  3. #33243
    Tuz Royalty Monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,635
    Cash
    3,913
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dolph View Post
    Thats what it says in the thesis. A number 4,8 and 10 if we are going by that. We are playing with a number 4 and two no 8, which doesnt fit the narrative.
    In our current set up Matuidi plays more as an LM , with the centre of the pitch being occupied by pjanic, khedira and dybala

  4. #33244
    Koul Khara! Osman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Uppsala
    Posts
    46,783
    Cash
    75,496
    Mentioned
    1798 Post(s)
    It fits the narrative, because the thesis talks mainly about 4-2-3-1 at that part, but in 4-3-3, the nr 10 is moved to the attack, and in 3 man "defensive" central midfield in 4-3-3 (compared to 4-2-3-1) where 3rd central midfielder is a pure nr 10 AM exploiting the channels between opponents defence and mid, the 3rd extra CM in 3 man midfield is there to add stability and hustle, or superiority in numbers and possession. Allegri's old thesis mentions most of these basics.

    Thats also the reason Dybala was benched for so long when we started playing 4-3-3, because he couldnt figure out a way to fit him in, but now he has in this lopsided SS role were we play without an LW/make Sandro or Matuidi (latter almost becomes LM to balance having Dybala on pitch) push forward more there.



    And nothing of that matters for what you originally said. For Juve, Pjanic cannot be a nr 10 when we have Dybala, and neither should he be, he is better as CM/regista, as we clearly have seen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zizinho View Post
    Damn I miss Pogba
    EXACTLY. Litterally the perfect b2b midfielder.
    "If a man does not have the sauce, then he is lost. But the same man can be lost in the sauce." - Guccimus Mane La Flaritus


    "Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on" - Homer

  5. #33245
    LIQUID PEASANT Hydde's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Panama City, Panama
    Posts
    34,182
    Cash
    38,107
    Mentioned
    215 Post(s)
    I havent read it all cuz of work, but from a quick peek, i still dont understand the khedira case.

    He talks about the regista role which would be the 4, ok pjanic check...

    Currently we have no number 10 on midfield. According to what he describes, a bernardeschi type would suit his needs there... as he is talking about someone who could push forward, find ways to set up the forwards and have a good shoot. But he is not using berna there.

    The last spot is the 8... which supposedly is khedira. From what i see, framewise khedira has what he wants, but on the field he is noweher near the 8 he is talking about. The only thing khedira does is win headers... but he is not someone who will create numerical advantages with dribbles nor soemoen who would impose his physical presence and cover the 4 and 10. In fact, he is the contrary of that. He plays like a offensive midfielder but without playin like one.

    In allegris set up, what i see is more of pjanic as the 4, matuidi as the 8 and khedira as the offensive mid. Imo khedira is the one who doesnt fit the 8 nor the 10 role who allegri describes.

    For that reaSon, i feel that if marchisio is fit, we should try him more alongside matuidi and pjanic, as someone who would help distribute the ball and balance the midfield, while pjanic carries the major burden of making the play and matuidi the physical player.

    If not, we can try a double physical mid with matuidi and sturaro flanking pjanic... just like we did vs udinese but pjanic instead or marchisio.

    All this proposed combinations would suffice for me, but all this requires to bench khedira.

    To finish this post.... I think that the midfield allegri would really love to try in a 433 would be:
    PJanic as the regista number 4
    POgba as the b2B dynamo, physical, pusher and with header prowess, the number 8
    And someone like bernardeschi as the creative outlet who would 1v1 and shoot from afar or assist.

    Imo taht would be his dream midfield according to his essay
    KHDownloads

    Click the link please

  6. #33246
    Juventuz regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,731
    Cash
    5,193
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    It fits the narrative, because the thesis talks mainly about 4-2-3-1 at that part, but in 4-3-3, the nr 10 is moved to the attack, and in 3 man "defensive" central midfield in 4-3-3 (compared to 4-2-3-1) where 3rd central midfielder is a pure nr 10 AM exploiting the channels between opponents defence and mid, the 3rd extra CM in 3 man midfield is there to add stability and hustle, or superiority in numbers and possession. Allegri's old thesis mentions most of these basics.

    Thats also the reason Dybala was benched for so long when we started playing 4-3-3, because he couldnt figure out a way to fit him in, but now he has in this lopsided SS role were we play without an LW/make Sandro or Matuidi (latter almost becomes LM to balance having Dybala on pitch) push forward more there.



    And nothing of that matters for what you originally said. For Juve, Pjanic cannot be a nr 10 when we have Dybala, and neither should he be, he is better as CM/regista, as we clearly have seen.

    - - - Updated - - -



    EXACTLY. Litterally the perfect b2b midfielder.
    Pjanic played 5 years as a RCM in Roma and before that as an AM for Lyon. He struggled the first couple of months here and did not find his feet before we moved to the two man mid, but that certainly does not mean ve cant play RCM or AM again. Its certainly worth a shot compared to having Matuidi, Sturaro and Khedira as two of our three mids.

    In the thesis, Allegri clearly states that in a 4-3-3 the midfield 3 should be a 4,8 and 10. You are right that the number 10 in that system does not match Pjanic excatly but it matches him much better than a Matuidi.

  7. #33247
    Koul Khara! Osman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Uppsala
    Posts
    46,783
    Cash
    75,496
    Mentioned
    1798 Post(s)
    @Hydde Khedira is a nr 8 for sure. He is just not a good one.



    He uses him in that role because he is the only one in the squad that fits that charactericism for him. Khedira is physical presence, tactically aware/conservative, and runs forward with our without the ball on breaks, gets into the box to try to finish. Its all aspects of nr 8 he is fullfills for Allegri in basic terms.


    He is not good at it any of it in particular...



    But yeah it should defenitely clarify more why he is starting next to Pjanic or as 3rd CM, over Marchisio, because most likely Allegri sees Marchisio as too similar to Pjanic even if he is better defensively and more of a all around mid.
    "If a man does not have the sauce, then he is lost. But the same man can be lost in the sauce." - Guccimus Mane La Flaritus


    "Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on" - Homer

  8. #33248
    Juventuz legend zizinho's Avatar
    Yahtzee Champion Penguin Bashing Champion Rick Dangerous Champion Hexxagon Champion Asteroids Champion
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    36,904
    Cash
    1,367,178
    Mentioned
    2047 Post(s)
    Have you guys seen how we defend with both Matuidi and Khedira on the pitch? It’s literally a 442 with Pjanic-Khedira in the middle, Costa on the right and HD upfront. Neither Dybala or Higuain are wide players, so the attack doesn’t fit what he showed in his thesis either. Dybala is the 10 when he plays, not the 7 or 11. those would be Matuidi and Costa
    36 SUL CAMPO ✔

    Sign Max Meyer!!!

    Sell H16UAIN!!! ICARDI!!!!

  9. #33249
    Koul Khara! Osman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Uppsala
    Posts
    46,783
    Cash
    75,496
    Mentioned
    1798 Post(s)
    Yes, thats why I said Matuidi is a good solution for him to FIT in Dybala in a 4-3-3, thats basically a 4-4-1-1 really thats bit flexible.
    "If a man does not have the sauce, then he is lost. But the same man can be lost in the sauce." - Guccimus Mane La Flaritus


    "Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on" - Homer

  10. #33250
    Juventuz regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,731
    Cash
    5,193
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zizinho View Post
    Have you guys seen how we defend with both Matuidi and Khedira on the pitch? It’s literally a 442 with Pjanic-Khedira in the middle, Costa on the right and HD upfront. Neither Dybala or Higuain are wide players, so the attack doesn’t fit what he showed in his thesis either. Dybala is the 10 when he plays, not the 7 or 11. those would be Matuidi and Costa
    When Dybala and Higuain both playes it is clearly a 4-4-2, no matter if it is Stu, Matuidi or Mandzu who playes.

    I am talking about the 4-3-3 we played earlier, when Dybala was out (benched or injured). Matuidi and Khedira was still the prefered midfield pairing infront of Pjanic.

  11. #33251
    Juventuz legend zizinho's Avatar
    Yahtzee Champion Penguin Bashing Champion Rick Dangerous Champion Hexxagon Champion Asteroids Champion
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    36,904
    Cash
    1,367,178
    Mentioned
    2047 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dolph View Post
    When Dybala and Higuain both playes it is clearly a 4-4-2, no matter if it is Stu, Matuidi or Mandzu who playes.

    I am talking about the 4-3-3 we played earlier, when Dybala was out (benched or injured). Matuidi and Khedira was still the prefered midfield pairing infront of Pjanic.
    That was a 451\442 to me. Mandzu would defend wide and deep, then join Higuain in attack opening the left side for AS and Blaze. Matuidi and Khedira would take turns in pressing high when we don’t have the ball, which still leaves us with 4-4 players behind defending. But yes, we did play with two 8s without Dybala, simply because that was our best and most stabile midfield setup available. And I don’t think Max sees Pjanic as anything else than the deepest mid, said so when we 1st signed him and doubt anything changed
    36 SUL CAMPO ✔

    Sign Max Meyer!!!

    Sell H16UAIN!!! ICARDI!!!!

  12. #33252
    Juventuz legend Fr3sh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    33,562
    Cash
    60,908
    Mentioned
    2531 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zizinho View Post
    Damn I miss Pogba
    Pogba Pjanic and a hardman like Ruru with passing skills midfield would have been sex. Shame you'll never see it happen

    - - - Updated - - -

    Pogba-fabinho-pjanic
    Völler is here with DAi.

  13. #33253
    Juventuz regular pavluska's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,728
    Cash
    2,067
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    Allegri said multiple times he prefers a physical presence in his mezzala's/B2b, his nr 8, should be able to win header or run down opponents/run forward join attacks in box (his tactical thesis as student coach describing nr 8 types when he was becoming coach fits this narrative). All things thats not Marchisio style. So he is pretty much seen as Pjanic backup, and Pjanic isnt moving away from that regista role thats perfect for him in freeroaming CM/AM ever again under Allegri most likely.
    Khedira is bigger but not more physical. Marchisio is clearly better defensively. Khedira rarely tackles or intercepts. He's just very good at positioning, which Marchisio is very good at too.

    Khedira is better in the air and that helps us with defending set pieces. But this season, with the addition of MDS and Matuidi, not sure Khedira's guaranteed spot is warranted for that one thing when Marchisio is the overall better player.

    Yeah, Pjanic is defo our regista for present and future. Allegri groomed him in that role for 1.5 yr. Not gonna change now. Doesn't have to for Marchisio to play.

  14. #33254
    Ohaulick ALC's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    38,869
    Cash
    36,636
    Mentioned
    1349 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr3sh View Post
    Pogba Pjanic and a hardman like Ruru with passing skills midfield would have been sex. Shame you'll never see it happen

    - - - Updated - - -

    Pogba-fabinho-pjanic
    Pogba can $#@! right off, bring back Vidal

  15. #33255
    Juventuz regular pavluska's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,728
    Cash
    2,067
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    It fits the narrative, because the thesis talks mainly about 4-2-3-1 at that part, but in 4-3-3, the nr 10 is moved to the attack, and in 3 man "defensive" central midfield in 4-3-3 (compared to 4-2-3-1) where 3rd central midfielder is a pure nr 10 AM exploiting the channels between opponents defence and mid, the 3rd extra CM in 3 man midfield is there to add stability and hustle, or superiority in numbers and possession. Allegri's old thesis mentions most of these basics.

    Thats also the reason Dybala was benched for so long when we started playing 4-3-3, because he couldnt figure out a way to fit him in, but now he has in this lopsided SS role were we play without an LW/make Sandro or Matuidi (latter almost becomes LM to balance having Dybala on pitch) push forward more there.



    And nothing of that matters for what you originally said. For Juve, Pjanic cannot be a nr 10 when we have Dybala, and neither should he be, he is better as CM/regista, as we clearly have seen.

    - - - Updated - - -



    EXACTLY. Litterally the perfect b2b midfielder.
    Don't see how that's diff from the norm.

    In a 4231, you usually have one regista/static DM and one B2B (#8) (Marchisio can play as both). And that's true in all leagues.

    In a 433 in Italy, you usually have one regista/DM, a mobile B2B that can defend, and a mezzala or a more attacking CM with more attacking ability. (Marchisio played this in Conte's first season.) Currently, we aren't playing with a mezzala.

    As for Dybala in a 433, he thinks he should always play centrally and not out wide based on the type of player he is.

  16. #33256
    Juventuz legend Fr3sh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    33,562
    Cash
    60,908
    Mentioned
    2531 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ALC View Post
    Pogba can $#@! right off, bring back Vidal
    100%

    I wouldn't take him back. Only way I'd take him back is by pulling an elia on him during a word cup season
    Völler is here with DAi.

  17. #33257
    In bocca al lupo, Fabio. Seven's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Not in the sand :(
    Posts
    33,917
    Cash
    27,997
    Mentioned
    364 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    Allegri said multiple times he prefers a physical presence in his mezzala's/B2b, his nr 8, should be able to win header or run down opponents/run forward join attacks in box (his tactical thesis as student coach describing nr 8 types when he was becoming coach fits this narrative). All things thats not Marchisio style. So he is pretty much seen as Pjanic backup, and Pjanic isnt moving away from that regista role thats perfect for him in freeroaming CM/AM ever again under Allegri most likely.

    If this is true and it is a tactical choice rather than Marchisio just not being fit, I must say I'm disappointed. I think we look twice the team with a fit Marchisio in it. He's the player that makes us tick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjerknes View Post
    Do you really think Trump is an idiot?

    He's a businessman. What's to say he wouldn't make the right choice when in office? He's not kept abreast of military intelligence in the Middle East because he doesn't have access to it and perhaps doesn't have the time to be. But that's not to say he wouldn't make an astute decision when he has all the facts in front of him.

  18. #33258
    Juventuz star Afghan_juventus's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,627
    Cash
    6,726
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Marchisio>Pjanic at regista and pretty much overall

  19. #33259
    Tuz Royalty Monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,635
    Cash
    3,913
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Afghan_juventus View Post
    Marchisio>Pjanic at regista and pretty much overall
    Pjanic in the first part of the season was in great form, he has suffered recently as pretty much every team has put a tight man marker on him

  20. #33260
    LIQUID PEASANT Hydde's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Panama City, Panama
    Posts
    34,182
    Cash
    38,107
    Mentioned
    215 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Afghan_juventus View Post
    Marchisio>Pjanic at regista and pretty much overall
    I agree with this. And not because he is better technically than pjanic, but because he has better traits for that position as he defends more and doesnt overcomplicate things.

    I insist Hat we are limiting pjanic played as regista. He has so much to offer as the AM in a midfield trio... but keeping him in front of the defense limits him.
    KHDownloads

    Click the link please

Similar Threads

  1. Claudio Ranieri
    By Everblue in forum Rookie/history forum
    Replies: 10537
    Last Post: 17.05.2018, 10:02
  2. Claudio Marchisio - Guerrieri Juventini
    By Jiawy in forum Multimedia
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09.04.2009, 00:10
  3. Marchisio to Lazio SS
    By Stefanjuventino in forum Transfer discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 25.05.2008, 16:40
  4. Balzaretti, Paro, and Marchisio Pictures
    By rvi in forum Multimedia requests
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 15.07.2007, 04:14
  5. Claudio Pizarro
    By Dominic in forum Transfer discussion
    Replies: 417
    Last Post: 02.06.2007, 03:40

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •